can anyone explain why red hood and the outlaws is still a thing in DC Rebirth? 0_o

[JasonTodd428]

Loedbell, Winnick, Tomasi, Greg Pak..

The groundwork is there. The severe problems to me were mainly when they couldn´t follow up UTRH with lack of direction, other than Winnick, that is. You either run with it or you don`t. The number of appearances he`s had since the reboot tells me that a number of writers like to use him. I do recall the Bat writers panel saying Jason was the least favorite Robin, but since he hasn`t been Robin for decades, that doesn`t mean much to me. Maybe it makes them less fond of him than Dick, but as long they keep using him well, overall, I couldn`t care less. Dick has been around since the 40`s, Jason hasn`t.

I have to agree with you there. Winnick laid the groundwork with UtRH but unfortunately no one was willing to pick up the ball once he dropped it and that lead to stagnation for the character over the the course of years. Jason during that time had very little in the way of appearances and also had some very inconsistent characterization on top of that. Another problem was that no one seemed to be willing to allow Jason to deal with his PSTD issues and his issues with Daddy Bats and family so just about any time he made an appearance in a Bat title he was always harping on the same issues without getting anything in the way of resolution for them. That got old fast.

I would have been happy enough to read a series that featured him as a villainous vigilante after UtRH if they had taken the time to build up that direction and had given it to some writer that actually wanted to write it but they never did anything interesting with the concept at all. (I am aware that there were plans back at the time when they were considering killing off Dick Grayson to replace him as Nightwing with Jason but that didn't pan out.) In the end it became a direction that had no legs at all the farther they got from UtRH and something of an albatross for the character leaving him unable to move forward in any meaningful way.

Honestly, Lobdell at least had the gumption to try and move Jason beyond all of that nonsense and into a place were the character can move forward. I never saw anyone in the Bat office even try back in the day to do so. In my opinion that makes Lobdell a far better custodian of the character then the greater part of the Bat writers back before the reboot were.

By the way, since the question is about the actual comic Title and not the character, I think the answer is Editorial does see potential in the tone of the book. It`s a collection of anti-heroes lead by the most popular voice of them, doing things that you usually see in action movies but opposing sometimes Batman and co. In some ways while not having half the branding power of Titans, I can actually see it growing - if it ends up doing it - as something that can fill up that kind of void.

I agree with this as well. Likely editorial sees potential in the character and book and a collection of anti-heroes lead by Jason, who is the most well know DC anti-hero or close to it anyway, does fill the void between something like the JL and something like Suicide Squad.

As long as he stays the heck away from Teen Titans Lobdell can write Red Hood as long as he wants.

Honestly, not one writer in the N52 has managed to make Teen Titans work so I don't think it was only Lobdell who is at fault there. I'm not expecting much out of Percy on that front either to be honest. Also as an aside is your Avatar Jon? I've been meaning to ask.

[Aioros22]

As long as he stays the heck away from Teen Titans Lobdell can write Red Hood as long as he wants.

He didn`t handled the title as well, that`s true, but the Titans problem isn`t Loedbell in particular. It`s DC at large.

[GreenLanternRanger]

Yea it's Jon.


And true it's not just Lobdell's fault but DC at large.


As for Percy's upcoming run. I'll give the first couple of issues a try just to see what they do.

[Chrysalis_Changling]

Yea it's Jon.


And true it's not just Lobdell's fault but DC at large.


As for Percy's upcoming run. I'll give the first couple of issues a try just to see what they do.

do ya know how good percy's current run on green arrow has been?

[JasonTodd428]

Yea it's Jon.

I like Jon so I just wanted to say how cool that image is. It looks very anime inspired.

do ya know how good percy's current run on green arrow has been?

I do and that's why I'm not holding out any hope for the book. Looks like yet another mediocre writer is getting another shot at digging the hole the Teen Titans has fallen into deeper. I suppose there is a slim chance that he will actually do something good with the book but I got tired of being jerked around years ago so that's left me uninterested in trying anymore.

[GreenLanternRanger]

Yea I just found the pic on the Lois & Clark thread in the Superman forum.

But getting back on topic. I'm interested in seeing how Lobdell will handles Artemis and Bizzaro in the upcoming Outlaws series.

[JasonTodd428]

But getting back on topic. I'm interested in seeing how Lobdell will handles Artemis and Bizzaro in the upcoming Outlaws series.

I'm interested in that as well. I may be scratching my head at Bizzaro's inclusion on the team but that doesn't mean that Lobdell can't get me to buy into with the way he handles it. I questioned Starfire's inclusion back when RHatO started and he changed my mind about that so maybe the same thing will happen here. I'm also curious about the kinds of things Jason and the rest will be doing beyond this first arc and how Jason himself will handle these new members of the team.

[AJpyro]

But getting back on topic. I'm interested in seeing how Lobdell will handles Artemis and Bizzaro in the upcoming Outlaws series.

I'm interested in that as well. I may be scratching my head at Bizzaro's inclusion on the team but that doesn't mean that Lobdell can't get me to buy into with the way he handles it. I questioned Starfire's inclusion back when RHatO started and he changed my mind about that so maybe the same thing will happen here. I'm also curious about the kinds of things Jason and the rest will be doing beyond this first arc and how Jason himself will handle these new members of the team.

Still weird but I do think that Bizarro brings into the origin/something of resurrection/birth via death/decay. I think I remember him being birth through Lex's weird machine.

And after looking through Artemis wowaweewah I found this:

Over the centuries the Bana-Mighdallian weapons and services became above par and were in much demand. This way of living continued until the late 20th century. It was into this period that Artemis was born. As a child, Artemis was raised in poverty among her tribe, running naked through barren hills and often hungry.[3] By the time she was 10 years old she was trained to carry 50 lbs. packs silently across night battlefields.[4] At one point in her teens she briefly left her people to find a new life in Man's World, allying with Ra's al Ghul as he launched a plan to decimate the world with stolen nuclear missiles acquired with the aid of a salvaged Bizarro, claiming to be eighteen rather than fourteen and proving herself as a trained warrior by defeating several of Ra's forces. After being defeated by Batman- although her ability to hold her own against him when she was only fourteen was still impressive-, Artemis eventually turned against Ra's after leading him to Themyscira with the intention of allowing him to use it as a base, realising during the attack that she could not cause the deaths of her own people. She returned home after being inspired by a brief meeting with Superman, opting to return to a life of relative tranquility.[5]

Granted its from wikipedia but dang if its true that is a crazy coinkidink!

Plus all three have died and come back. The tag line could be: THEY"RE BACK AND BADDER THAN EVER!

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I think it comes down to two main things (not sales, because while it sells above cancellation numbers, it's just not well enough to counterbalance the semu-constant bad press the book gets all on its own):

1. DC is clearly in the tank with Lobdell. Whether he has something on his bosses the way it's rumored with Berganza, he and Harras made some kind of blood pact in their Marvel days together, or god just loves him, he's sticking around for the foreseeable future, and this is a solid book to quarantine him to.

2. DC wants to keep the concept in play. If you accept DC's main purpose as a publisher as being a content farm for other media at this point, Red Hood and the Outlaws is a solid concept: a wild former disciple of Batman, an alien amazon sex queen with name recognition, and a loveable schlub getting into international adventures together. They could easily at least build a schlocky 80s-esque DTV animated movie around that, but they need to keep the brand alive and viable until that time comes so they'll have sufficient material to build off of, which means that whatever the cost, for now, the show must go on.

[Flash Gordon]

The concept behind OUTLAWS is fun, it isn't where Bizzaro would be best utilized but ah well. I don't care too much since this is Forever Evil Bizzaro, not the cool Bizzaro World guy.

From what I've seen it's nice seeing Roy as a recovering addict, even if TITANS HUNT seems to missuse and underscore that. Speedy as a recovering addict and alcoholic with Croc as his sponsor is gold.

[Tony]

I loved it when it was Jason Roy and Kory written by Lobdell. I think the reboot with just Jason and Roy didn't work so well. I'm looking forward to this next incarnation as the dark trinity. I think a lot of his work at DC has been better than the rest of the people to work on these characters. Lobdell has done my favorite Red Hood and Superman work of the new 52.

[Aioros22]

1. DC is clearly in the tank with Lobdell. Whether he has something on his bosses the way it's rumored with Berganza, he and Harras made some kind of blood pact in their Marvel days together, or god just loves him, he's sticking around for the foreseeable future, and this is a solid book to quarantine him to.

I like the devil pact plot. But tell me more about the Berganza rumor

[Aahz]

The concept behind OUTLAWS is fun, it isn't where Bizzaro would be best utilized but ah well. I don't care too much since this is Forever Evil Bizzaro, not the cool Bizzaro World guy.

Lobdell said in this interview http://thecomicsourceblog.com/comic-...ell-interview/ that it would be a new Bizzaro.

[TooFlyToFail]

Lobdell's is writing THE definitive Jason Todd story-line and has been for years now. To deny the man to explore the multiple facets for the characters and directions he can take with him would be an outrage.

No it wouldn't, and he's not the definitive Jason Todd writer, by any means.

Besides the return to villain status (even tho Todd still wears the Bat logo, which gives his scheme away), most people are disappointed because the majority of us wanted 1) a solo for Jason Todd and 2) a different/better writer.

Personally, I don't get why we can't get Jason back with the League of Assassins, and continue his unique relationship with Talia, and the other assassins (like a Bronze Tiger).

It does everything that this book wants to do, but it connects him back to the Bat franchise, and it can be done in a solo.

Or go the Moon Knight/Hawkeye route, and just give smaller scaled, but heavy character driven, stories, that could eventually build up to bigger storylines.

[Rac7d*]

How do they expect this book to do, no one would read for Artemis, she kinda d list general DC and b list wonder woman, everyone is gonna confuse her for YG version.
Bizarro feels like a bigger character then Jason to me, simply BECASUE of his association with Lex Luther.

What is the draw to this book, I guess they will actually be outlaws in this book, bizzaro is the kinda guy to kill civilians by accident
So this antihero thing gonna be hard