Loeb/Kelly Run

[FlashingSabre]

I'm a semi-newbie (only read a bit of Johns' action, enjoyed it) looking to check this era out. Can anyone post a list of the issues? Would be very appreciated.

[manofsteel1979]

IMO, Loeb's SUPERMAN run is the last decent thing he did in comics. The first arc of SUPERMAN/BATMAN was fine, but soon as Loeb had Batman beat up Darkseid in the SUPERGIRL arc....well, lets just say my faith in his writting abilities faltered quite a bit, and his Marvel work pretty much killed any interest in his career. A lot of people call him the Michael Bay of comics,which certainly applies now,but SFAS and his SUPERMAN run was full of quiet character moments to balance against the bombast.

Let's face it though Loeb, Kelly and their cohorts brought something Superman had needed for a long time...and that was SCALE. Don't get me wrong, I loved The Jurgens/Simonson/Kesel/Ordway/Stern era in it's heyday. From about 1990-1995 ish, they did some great things with the character and his universe, and took the lemons Byrne had left them and made lemonade. However, after ACTION #700 (when Luthor was brought down for awhile) it seemed they just ran out of good ideas for the most part, and the books slowly became less about Superman and his adventures and more about the large cast that was built up, with the occasional gimmick thrown out there to justify keeping the name and logo on the covers (Look! We killed Clark Kent! Look! Superman is on trial!!! Lois and Clark break up! Lois and Clark Get married! Superman becomes a smurf!!!). There would be some good things like the 60th anniversary tribute story line that payed tribute to the previous ages of the character, and the KING OF THE WORLD story wasn't too shabby,but the character was buried in detris. Loeb and Kelly brought the character back to its roots whilst moving the evolution of everything forward, and that is largely owed to Loeb (until DC backpeddled on nearly all of it,but thats a separate story.) He and Kelly got that the biggest Superhero in comics should have big action and high stakes, emotionally and physically, and they delivered in spades for the most part.

However sadly...some of the seeds that run sowed (Superman in therapy) led to the period that saw Superman be percieved as a listless, hand wringing, at times emotionally unstable and uninspiring figure that unfortunately proved to be true and untrue at times depending who was writing him. It was a good idea for a character arc,a Superman in crisis with his responsibilities,but it was a well later writers used over and over to the franchises detriment. Unfortunately, with all the good things that that three year run of stories gave us, it was only THAT element that survived over the next decade until the new 52, and probably why it's reputation over all has dwindled in the eyes of Superman fans. Which is a shame,because a lot of really good stuff from that time is now overlooked (ACTION #775 being the lone exception it seems...and even I think that story is overated IMO).

It is also unfortunate though that the SUPERMAN 2000 pitch was scuttled for this. Would it have worked as well as we all think it would have? I don't know,but to have seen Waid/Morrison, Peyer and Millar all at the top of their game at the time, all working on Superman? That would have been worth a try at least. Plus, judging the ideas from the pitch were the basis of two of my favorite Superman mini series of the last decade (BIRTHRIGHT and ALL STAR)...i think I would have liked it just fine. I too liked the Loeb/Kelly stuff and I still look at it fondly...but...as many have in the 14 years since,I still lament at what we could have had in the 2000's over what we got...which wasn't overall as a decade that great.

[Myskin]

It was a good run, and sometimes it was a VERY good run. If I hadn't read it, probably I wouldn't have become a fan of Superman.
It was full of good ideas, Superman was nice and funny and Joe Kelly was Morrisonesque in scope. Some of his issues are among the best US comic books I read during that decade - at least, if we talk about DC superhero regular series (a couple of examples: 75% of the Lost Hearts saga, the final issue focused on Superman's New Year's Eve).

The run contains some rather radical changes to the history of the character (president Luthor, Luthor's "discovery", etc.), but because of unfortunate real-world occurrences and editorial uncertainty, many of the most interesting developments were rebooted rather quickly (and some didn't even begin to be developed as the writers had planned, like the reveal of Zod's real identity and Jonathan Kent's descent into illness).

Not every issue is pure gold (Our Worlds At War is a mess, for example, and Seagle's issues are subpar), but generally speaking and all things considered I think that it is the best Superman run I've ever read in regular series, at least in postCrisis issues. Yes, way better than Jurgens' run (which I never loved), and Byrne's run (which is more important historically speaking, but IMHO dated too). This does not mean that it is a masterpiece, or an IDEAL Superman run. But in the real world, it is the best Superman run I can think of.

[kingaliencracker]

I'm a semi-newbie (only read a bit of Johns' action, enjoyed it) looking to check this era out. Can anyone post a list of the issues? Would be very appreciated.

ACTION COMICS #760-810
ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #573-623
SUPERMAN #151-184*
SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF STEEL #95-134
SUPERMAN/BATMAN #20-25**
SUPERMAN: Y2K
SUPERMAN: EMPEROR JOKER
LEX 2000
PRESIDENT LUTHOR SECRET FILES
SUPERMAN: OUR WORLDS AT WAR SECRET FILES
SUPERMAN VS. DARKSEID: APOKOLIPS NOW!

*Superman #184 was not written by Jeph Loeb (his run concluded with issue #183). It was written by Geoff Johns but is a chapter from the 2nd/concluding part of RETURN TO KRYPTON.

**This is an epilogue of sorts to EMPEROR JOKER.

I personally loved this era, especially at the beginning. I think they lost a lot of steam, not with OUR WORLDS AT WAR (although the execution of that was botched for sure) but with the first part of RETURN TO KRYPTON. After that story concluded with a cliffhanger that showed no real signs of being resolved any time soon, I kind of felt like they were biting off more than they could chew. It turns out I was right, as great characters that were initially introduced in their run such as Brainiac 13, Ignition, General Zod, and Imperiex lost their luster and the unresolved storylines generally had mediocre conclusions. Still I have a lot of fond memories of that era for sure.

[Sacred Knight]

I will say about the only idea I can really say I loved and was really interested in from this era was the modification of Metropolis into a truly futuristic city after B13. That I thought was really cool.

[Flash Gordon]

I will say about the only idea I can really say I loved and was really interested in from this era was the modification of Metropolis into a truly futuristic city after B13. That I thought was really cool.

I was a big ole fan of that, and would totally turn Metropolis into that City of Tomorrow again.

[Clark_Kent]

That's a fair comparison, I guess. And 775 isn't the apex, for me at least, so much as its followup "Ending Battle", which has a much less cliché, far more powerful conclusion to the Superman/Black conflict.

Was #775 collected in the tpb of "Ending Battle"? And if not, was it collected anywhere?

[Billy Batson]

Was #775 collected in the tpb of "Ending Battle"? And if not, was it collected anywhere?

It's collected in Justice League Elite vol. 01 and in Superman: The Greatest Stories Ever Told vol. 01.

[LoneNecromancer]

and in Superman: The Greatest Stories Ever Told vol. 01.

Well then that title's a lie if I ever saw one.

[Billy Batson]

Well then that title's a lie if I ever saw one.

"Greatests/Best of" things often are.

[Clark_Kent]

It's collected in Justice League Elite vol. 01 and in Superman: The Greatest Stories Ever Told vol. 01.

Thank you very much!

While 775 never did much for me, I did enjoy Ending Battle. But I'm a tpb completionist, so I guess I'd better pick up JL:Elite & Ending Battle. Strange that they didn't just include the 2 together.

But then I wouldn't be buying two seperate trades, so I guess I answered my own question lol

[Jeremiah]

For me, nearly every issue Loeb did was a home run. Kelly was a little hit or miss. But he had some great ideas. The problem is, the other two (Seagal and Schultz) were pretty rough and the titles were still connected.

I think if they were all allowed to do their own thing Loeb and Kelly would be fondly remembered as the best part of the decade.

But it's tough to read it all. You have to suffer through 50-100 issues issues of mediocrity. And I'm not even sure it's all collected.

[Jeremiah]

I think another problem people have with that era, is that it came right after the Jurgens era. People loved it. So many people had started reading the books during Byrne's run or the Death of Superman.

Change happens, everyone understands this, but DC wouldn't commit to continuing the Bryne/Jurgens era and continuity OR starting fresh. (Ala Superman 2000) So they compromised and let the writers slowly shift things away from the 90's hoping no one would notice. Obviously they did, and it upset a lot of people.

[Super4Ever]

Another fan of an actual futuristic Metropolis. If there is one idea I would love to see recycled, it would be that.

[manofsteel1979]

For me, nearly every issue Loeb did was a home run. Kelly was a little hit or miss. But he had some great ideas. The problem is, the other two (Seagal and Schultz) were pretty rough and the titles were still connected.

I think if they were all allowed to do their own thing Loeb and Kelly would be fondly remembered as the best part of the decade.

But it's tough to read it all. You have to suffer through 50-100 issues issues of mediocrity. And I'm not even sure it's all collected.

Actually Seagle didn't join until AFTER Loeb left (he actually replaced Loeb on SUPERMAN after Geoff Johns filled in for a few months ). You are probably thinking of J.M. DeMatteis who was on ADVENTURES from right after Y2K on through to when Joe Casey took over prior to OWAW. DeMatteis was clearly the weak link of the line. I like Mark Shultze's run on MOS actually, especially what he did with STEEL and The Fortress.