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Thread: Loeb/Kelly Run

  1. #31
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super4Ever View Post
    Another fan of an actual futuristic Metropolis. If there is one idea I would love to see recycled, it would be that.
    Kurt Busiek sorta kinda tried to bring that back in his SUPERMAN run with the "Avenue of Tomorrow" idea which a part of Metropolis was a major tech and science hub...but it all kinda got broomed. The New 52 was the perfect place to reinstintute the futuristic Metropolis idea and organically tie it in from the start. Sadly, they haven't done that beyond redesigning The Daily Planet building.

    A bit off topic.....have we seen what the New 52 version of the Lexcorp building looks like? I don't recall it actually ever been shown yet....

  2. #32
    Golux Kurt Busiek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Kurt Busiek sorta kinda tried to bring that back in his SUPERMAN run with the "Avenue of Tomorrow" idea which a part of Metropolis was a major tech and science hub...but it all kinda got broomed.
    That was actually Geoff's idea, but it was a very good one.

    I think my contribution to it was calling it "Avenue of Tomorrow" instead of "Street of Tomorrow."

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  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Hell I think it could be argued that the futuristic Metropolis idea fits better with the New 52 than it did when it was actually used. I'd definitely go for seeing it reincorporated.

    Its already canon that Brainiac worked some weird mojo on the city when he was around the first time. Easy to say that he went even further than that.

  4. #34
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Hell I think it could be argued that the futuristic Metropolis idea fits better with the New 52 than it did when it was actually used. I'd definitely go for seeing it reincorporated.

    Its already canon that Brainiac worked some weird mojo on the city when he was around the first time. Easy to say that he went even further than that.
    I'm not sure I would want the idea with Brainiac.
    I mean, I think that, more than the idea of Metropolis becoming a futuristic city in itself, what's interesting is the idea of Metropolis as a "supercity", a city influenced by the wake of "superheroism" to evolve, but by itself. It's often said that Superman's arrival was a big event that changed mankind's future (presumably for the better), and I think Metropolis should represent that, like a preview of the way this new age of heroism will eventually influence the planet.
    So, to me, it shouldn't be about Brainiac turning Metropolis into Krypton 2.0 (or whatever 2.0), but about -for instance- scientists studying his technology and incorporating it into the city in some experimental way. That way, Metropolis would remain "grounded" enough to be recognisable and relatable to us, while being a City of Tommorow by its own merits.
    Not Corruscant, but more like.....a cyberpunk type of city, but without the negativity associated to the cyberpunk genre. A bright cyberpunk.
    Basically, Metropolis should be a city that represents progress.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    I'm not sure I would want the idea with Brainiac.
    I mean, I think that, more than the idea of Metropolis becoming a futuristic city in itself, what's interesting is the idea of Metropolis as a "supercity", a city influenced by the wake of "superheroism" to evolve, but by itself. It's often said that Superman's arrival was a big event that changed mankind's future (presumably for the better), and I think Metropolis should represent that, like a preview of the way this new age of heroism will eventually influence the planet.
    So, to me, it shouldn't be about Brainiac turning Metropolis into Krypton 2.0 (or whatever 2.0), but about -for instance- scientists studying his technology and incorporating it into the city in some experimental way. That way, Metropolis would remain "grounded" enough to be recognisable and relatable to us, while being a City of Tommorow by its own merits.
    Not Corruscant, but more like.....a cyberpunk type of city, but without the negativity associated to the cyberpunk genre. A bright cyberpunk.
    Basically, Metropolis should be a city that represents progress.
    Yeah. I mean I dunno if cyberpunk is the right word because there's an inherent dystopian/noir connotation there, but a bright sci-fi landscape is what Metropolis should be. It really needs those trappings in the same way Gotham has the gothic aesthetic going for it, or else it's just a generic city. I'm hoping Johns will go that route, since he's been going on about how he wants to focus on the "Man of Tomorrow" aspect of Superman.

  6. #36
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid A View Post
    Yeah. I mean I dunno if cyberpunk is the right word because there's an inherent dystopian/noir connotation there, but a bright sci-fi landscape is what Metropolis should be. It really needs those trappings in the same way Gotham has the gothic aesthetic going for it, or else it's just a generic city. I'm hoping Johns will go that route, since he's been going on about how he wants to focus on the "Man of Tomorrow" aspect of Superman.
    Not really. It's just the kind of stupid confusion you make when you write stuff at 2 in the morning.
    Although I think it would be kinda interesting to have Superman explore some themes you can find in "serious" (assuming the term makes sense in this context) science fiction, like transhumanism. or at least, do what "grounded sci fi" (I'm not sure I'm clear. Basically, not Star Wars, more Asinof) does and use its science fiction like idea to talk about our world, our civilisation.
    That's not to say I think it should lose the superheroic aspect. But maybe it would be interesting to have "grounded sci fi" be to Superman what "film noir" is to Batman. A sort of overarching theme that gives a coherence to the hero's superheroic antics.Batman's universe always feel cohesive, while Superman's often feels like there's two world, the grounded world of Metropolis, and the crazy world of sci fi, fighting themselves.
    Which kinda brings me back to my cyberpunk thing. Maybe it's not that Metropolis would be cyberpunk, but that it may turn out that way if the overall progress is left unchecked, and making sure this "bad future" never come to pass would be Superman's "never ending battle", or at least part of it.
    ....Now, I'm sure you can see this is written at 2 in the morning. I'm pretty sure it makes no sense anymore at this point.
    Anyway, I dunno. I think it could be an interesting experiment, at least. Plus, it would bring the whole "Champion of the Oppressed" thing while keeping the scope of later Superman runs. Possibly.
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  7. #37
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    I'm not sure I would want the idea with Brainiac.
    I mean, I think that, more than the idea of Metropolis becoming a futuristic city in itself, what's interesting is the idea of Metropolis as a "supercity", a city influenced by the wake of "superheroism" to evolve, but by itself. It's often said that Superman's arrival was a big event that changed mankind's future (presumably for the better), and I think Metropolis should represent that, like a preview of the way this new age of heroism will eventually influence the planet.
    So, to me, it shouldn't be about Brainiac turning Metropolis into Krypton 2.0 (or whatever 2.0), but about -for instance- scientists studying his technology and incorporating it into the city in some experimental way. That way, Metropolis would remain "grounded" enough to be recognisable and relatable to us, while being a City of Tommorow by its own merits.
    Not Corruscant, but more like.....a cyberpunk type of city, but without the negativity associated to the cyberpunk genre. A bright cyberpunk.
    Basically, Metropolis should be a city that represents progress.
    I can dig it.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Not really. It's just the kind of stupid confusion you make when you write stuff at 2 in the morning.
    Although I think it would be kinda interesting to have Superman explore some themes you can find in "serious" (assuming the term makes sense in this context) science fiction, like transhumanism. or at least, do what "grounded sci fi" (I'm not sure I'm clear. Basically, not Star Wars, more Asinof) does and use its science fiction like idea to talk about our world, our civilisation.
    That's not to say I think it should lose the superheroic aspect. But maybe it would be interesting to have "grounded sci fi" be to Superman what "film noir" is to Batman. A sort of overarching theme that gives a coherence to the hero's superheroic antics.Batman's universe always feel cohesive, while Superman's often feels like there's two world, the grounded world of Metropolis, and the crazy world of sci fi, fighting themselves.
    Which kinda brings me back to my cyberpunk thing. Maybe it's not that Metropolis would be cyberpunk, but that it may turn out that way if the overall progress is left unchecked, and making sure this "bad future" never come to pass would be Superman's "never ending battle", or at least part of it.
    ....Now, I'm sure you can see this is written at 2 in the morning. I'm pretty sure it makes no sense anymore at this point.
    Anyway, I dunno. I think it could be an interesting experiment, at least. Plus, it would bring the whole "Champion of the Oppressed" thing while keeping the scope of later Superman runs. Possibly.
    Yeah this would be great. Also now that I think about it, the Brainiac 13 Metropolis was pretty cyberpunk.

    The Legion future represents something bright and utopian, while most science fiction I see is the opposite, so when you have a City of Tomorrow that is Metropolis, there's potential to explore it as a crossroad between now and tomorrow and the various possibilities of where humanity is headed.

    It's hard to make it too grounded because the DCU is really seeped into all kinds of super science, but you can probably make it metaphorical I guess? Like instead of exploring the implications of the first artificial intelligence, which is old news in the DCU, you use Brainiac or Brother Eye, which is the same concept but to a whole new level.

  9. #39
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    In the old discussion about the ways to "fix" Superman (in the pre-reboot forum), the idea of a cyberpunk background for Superman's adventures was one of the points everyones agreed on.

  10. #40
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid A View Post
    Yeah this would be great. Also now that I think about it, the Brainiac 13 Metropolis was pretty cyberpunk.

    The Legion future represents something bright and utopian, while most science fiction I see is the opposite, so when you have a City of Tomorrow that is Metropolis, there's potential to explore it as a crossroad between now and tomorrow and the various possibilities of where humanity is headed.

    It's hard to make it too grounded because the DCU is really seeped into all kinds of super science, but you can probably make it metaphorical I guess? Like instead of exploring the implications of the first artificial intelligence, which is old news in the DCU, you use Brainiac or Brother Eye, which is the same concept but to a whole new level.
    Yeah, or instead of having rich people use cyber parts to upgrade themselves, they could spend lots of money to turn they bodies into solar batteries like Superman and upgrade themselves that way.
    Last edited by Auguste Dupin; 07-04-2014 at 02:53 AM.
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  11. #41
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I don't think it takes much work to keep the "CHAMPION OF THE OPPRESSED" feeling to Superman after he's been established. I've been working on a full pitch for Big Blue but today I was writing my more Socialist Superman. A girl I know (I asked her opinion) she said "can't the Silver Age superscientist be an extension of that" so I worked it around a lot and I think so. So he dethrones dictators and corrupt politicians at first but then as his role gets bigger it turns to alien warlords and slave planets.

  12. #42
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I don't think it takes much work to keep the "CHAMPION OF THE OPPRESSED" feeling to Superman after he's been established. I've been working on a full pitch for Big Blue but today I was writing my more Socialist Superman. A girl I know (I asked her opinion) she said "can't the Silver Age superscientist be an extension of that" so I worked it around a lot and I think so. So he dethrones dictators and corrupt politicians at first but then as his role gets bigger it turns to alien warlords and slave planets.
    Heh. Believe it or not, I wrote a pitch that was kinda like that some time ago. It was a bit a mixture of the Golden Age "Champion of the Oppressed" and the Bronze Age "Greatest Hero of the universe", with the main idea being to repurpose Superman as a Freedom Fighter.
    It was an out of continuity take, thought, but I think it would only take some retweaks if I wanted it to be an in continuity one.
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  13. #43

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    Reading this thread reminded me that this is a period I haven't sampled so my question would be:
    Since I'm mostly a trade reader, what TPBs from that era would you recommend (those of you who like that era)?

  14. #44
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L. View Post
    Reading this thread reminded me that this is a period I haven't sampled so my question would be:
    Since I'm mostly a trade reader, what TPBs from that era would you recommend (those of you who like that era)?
    I may have missed a few, but the ones I have are:

    No Limits
    End Game
    Til Death Do Us Part
    Critical Condition
    President Lex
    Return To Krypton
    Our Worlds At War
    Ending Battle


    Most of them are out of print, and I'm not sure I'd recommend tracking them down beyond the first 2 or 3 + Ending Battle.
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  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    ACTION COMICS #760-810
    ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #573-623
    SUPERMAN #151-184*
    SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF STEEL #95-134
    SUPERMAN/BATMAN #20-25**
    SUPERMAN: Y2K
    SUPERMAN: EMPEROR JOKER
    LEX 2000
    PRESIDENT LUTHOR SECRET FILES
    SUPERMAN: OUR WORLDS AT WAR SECRET FILES
    SUPERMAN VS. DARKSEID: APOKOLIPS NOW!

    *Superman #184 was not written by Jeph Loeb (his run concluded with issue #183). It was written by Geoff Johns but is a chapter from the 2nd/concluding part of RETURN TO KRYPTON.

    **This is an epilogue of sorts to EMPEROR JOKER.

    I personally loved this era, especially at the beginning. I think they lost a lot of steam, not with OUR WORLDS AT WAR (although the execution of that was botched for sure) but with the first part of RETURN TO KRYPTON. After that story concluded with a cliffhanger that showed no real signs of being resolved any time soon, I kind of felt like they were biting off more than they could chew. It turns out I was right, as great characters that were initially introduced in their run such as Brainiac 13, Ignition, General Zod, and Imperiex lost their luster and the unresolved storylines generally had mediocre conclusions. Still I have a lot of fond memories of that era for sure.
    Are there any links between RETURN TO KRYPTON and the later NEW KRYPTON?

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