Ben Affleck's Batman Solo Movie

[Asdamine]

How are characters that they wanted to go with shoehorned ? Selina and Bane were all Jonah Nolan and Goyer's ideas and Chris don't take any crap from WB, Talia was the only shoehorned character in terms of plot because they wanted a twist. How was it an opportunity wasted when they never introduced the character in the first place nor did they have any plan to do? Talia was the wasted one.

Do note the only character I mentioned as being shoehorned was Catwoman. I didn't say Bane and Talia were unnecessary since the whole premise of TDKR did deal with the return of the League of Shadows, or a version of it... which I was fine with on a narrative level, albeit it being, as I said, tiresome because it was uninspiring, or repetitive, or whatever issues were raised when the film came out. Take your pick.

Catwoman, on the other hand, as was discussed to death then, was indeed an uninspiring and unnecessary choice as Batman's forced love interest/quasi-foil/whatever. Just because it was the filmmakers' idea to have Selena Kyle in the film didn't mean they did a good job with her, and it showed.

My point is that they had a wealth of characters to choose from for the final outing. I'm sure the Huntress must've crossed their mind but they saw fit to go with what was in the final product instead, which I thought was a pity.

That's not to say Bane was a poor choice by Nolan, but Helena would've been better IMO. Her circumstances and morals (or the lack thereof) are more relatable to Bruce Wayne/Batman when it comes to the meaning and value of his existence, as opposed to Bane who's just someone for Batman to overcome, be it on a personal level or for the good of the many... which was a good premise, but that, as I said, had been done in Begins and TDK already.

[Cowtools]

Basically, the only way I could get excited about this is if they don't follow up on any of the hints dropped in BvS - like the dead Robin - and just completely ignore Batman's characterisation from the film - the guns and the murder and everything.
Basically, if they start completely afresh with a smart, moral, inspirational Batman + Batfamily, I'll be interested.

But the odd of that happening are like 0.000001%
I expect the grimmest of grimdark douchiness.

[darkseidpwns]

Do note the only character I mentioned as being shoehorned was Catwoman. I didn't say Bane and Talia were unnecessary since the whole premise of TDKR did deal with the return of the League of Shadows, or a version of it... which I was fine with on a narrative level, albeit it being, as I said, tiresome because it was uninspiring, or repetitive, or whatever issues were raised when the film came out. Take your pick.

Catwoman, on the other hand, as was discussed to death then, was indeed an uninspiring and unnecessary choice as Batman's forced love interest/quasi-foil/whatever. Just because it was the filmmakers' idea to have Selena Kyle in the film didn't mean they did a good job with her, and it showed.

My point is that they had a wealth of characters to choose from for the final outing. I'm sure the Huntress must've crossed their mind but they saw fit to go with what was in the final product instead, which I thought was a pity.

That's not to say Bane was a poor choice by Nolan, but Helena would've been better IMO. Her circumstances and morals (or the lack thereof) are more relatable to Bruce Wayne/Batman when it comes to the meaning and value of his existence, as opposed to Bane who's just someone for Batman to overcome, be it on a personal level or for the good of the many... which was a good premise, but that, as I said, had been done in Begins and TDK already.

Yeah I don't agree with any of this but to each his own I guess. Helena isn't comparable to Catwoman and Bane on any level, she cant replicate Batman's dynamics with those two and the iconography isn't even up for debate. She's neither a villain nor a love interest which is what they wanted, they have Robin/Nightwing for a partner and the likes of Azrael and Red Hood are more likely to make it to the stories she could possibly be involved in. She's a no go unless they make a Grayson or BOP movie,I don't see her ever having a major part in a Batman venture.

[Agent Z]

Basically, the only way I could get excited about this is if they don't follow up on any of the hints dropped in BvS - like the dead Robin - and just completely ignore Batman's characterisation from the film - the guns and the murder and everything.
Basically, if they start completely afresh with a smart, moral, inspirational Batman + Batfamily, I'll be interested.

But the odd of that happening are like 0.000001%
I expect the grimmest of grimdark douchiness.

He was clearly different in BvS. So if this takes place after that movie, I don't think you have much to worry about.

[ekrolo2]

Basically, the only way I could get excited about this is if they don't follow up on any of the hints dropped in BvS - like the dead Robin - and just completely ignore Batman's characterisation from the film - the guns and the murder and everything.
Basically, if they start completely afresh with a smart, moral, inspirational Batman + Batfamily, I'll be interested.

But the odd of that happening are like 0.000001%
I expect the grimmest of grimdark douchiness.

Batman already starts to change after he nearly kills a couple of good people (Superman and by extension Martha) by acting like a douche. He's already returning back from the grimness into more of what people generally know him as, as evidenced by the men are still good speech. I know people hate it when DC characters have anything resembling inner conflict that doesn't conclude with them being propped up against the opposing side but I'd be pretty ticked off if nothing from BvS was followed up. Specifically how Batman's going to deal with Joker now that he's crossed the line. That prospect alone makes addressing his actions in BvS an interesting one.

[Asdamine]

Yeah I don't agree with any of this but to each his own I guess. Helena isn't comparable to Catwoman and Bane on any level, she cant replicate Batman's dynamics with those two and the iconography isn't even up for debate. She's neither a villain nor a love interest which is what they wanted, they have Robin/Nightwing for a partner and the likes of Azrael and Red Hood are more likely to make it to the stories she could possibly be involved in. She's a no go unless they make a Grayson or BOP movie,I don't see her ever having a major part in a Batman venture.

She would've actually been in a better position to be both as far as Nolan-verse is concerned. Unlike so many of the "iconic" characters where they had to do away with many outlandish or ridiculous elements to make it believable, like the Lazarus Pit, Bane's venom addiction, Robin as a sidekick etc. etc., Helena's backstory is already grounded in reality, no modifications really required to make her a fleshed-out character that better fits Nolan's noir style approach to the franchise.

Let's forget about her comic book associations for a minute and simply imagine Batman having to deal with someone who hunts down mob bosses and doesn't shy away from taking down those who gets in her way, someone who's just as ferocious and merciless a fighter shaped by a tragic childhood past, who feels as justified in her actions as a rich orphan beating up criminals at night... and that's only her night time job. During the day she's this rich and resourceful... playgirl(?) exploiting the power vacuum created by taking over the mafias which allows her to mixing with the corrupt high societies in Gotham and Bruce Wayne. She's like a gangster version of Bruce Wayne, only that she's getting rid of all the gangsters in Gotham by being/pretending to be one... there is so much potential there to turn the comic book Huntress around and bring her to the "level" of Catwoman and whatnot, cinematically speaking.

But I can understand it may be hard to disgorge her comic book presence from people's minds, which has always been on the periphery. Still, whether you want to see this in hindsight or not, TDK owed its larger success vis-a-vis TDKR to its crime noir elements with a twist of comic book sprinkled on top, where TDKR could've benefitted greatly from having more grounded characters from the get-go.

[Rac7d*]

Just give me some good Dick and I won't complain

[Lady Nightwing]

I want something far different than Snyder. I want a lot more mainline comic Batman and a lot less Miller Batman.

This!

Just give me some good Dick and I won't complain

Also this! I'd also like them to keep Jared Leto's cringe inducing Joker away from any Batman solo film.

[ABH]

Batman already starts to change after he nearly kills a couple of good people (Superman and by extension Martha) by acting like a douche. He's already returning back from the grimness into more of what people generally know him as, as evidenced by the men are still good speech. I know people hate it when DC characters have anything resembling inner conflict that doesn't conclude with them being propped up against the opposing side but I'd be pretty ticked off if nothing from BvS was followed up. Specifically how Batman's going to deal with Joker now that he's crossed the line. That prospect alone makes addressing his actions in BvS an interesting one.

Right. Batman could have branded Lex at the end of BvS, but held back. Also, I'm not sure if Suicide Squad takes place after BvS or not, but the machine guns have been removed from Batmobile -- so that's something.

Still, I wouldn't mind a Bat-movie that takes place before BvS, as long as it isn't too early in Batman's career. We've had too many of those already -- I want to see a Batman that already has an existing rogues gallery.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I originally hated the idea of an adaptation of UtRH, but after knowing what this Batman is like in BvS, it would be like poetry to use Jason.

Bruce lost hope because Jason died, he started to kill, then Superman made him remember who he was and he stopped killing, which then coincides with Jason showing up killing criminals, Bruce wants to stop this vigilante, finds out he's Jason, cue flashback, wants to help him, Jason calls him a hypocrite because he used to kill or something, Batman defends himself, Jason argues that the only person Bruce would have had to kill after his death was Joker, climactic fight, end of the climax is Bruce vs. Jason with Joker making jokes in the background, movie ends with Jason seemingly getting away. Boom.

Throw in a few scenes with Alfred, Barbara, Jim, and maybe Dick (hopefully Dick, please Based Batfleck, do this for me), and you have a pretty solid movie right there. Maybe something to hint at a new potential Robin, too (Tim or Damian or even Duke). Although I'd rather just see someone like Spoiler or Cass than a live-action Robin at this point.

[Jon-El]

More detective & less angry vigilante.

[Bukdiah]

No idea what these guys have planned, but after learning that Affleck was a huge Batman fan, I am interested. I hope he puts in the research and reads up. If he pulls off some Ryan Reynolds-esque Deadpool authenticity with the Batman character, I'd be very happy.

[byrd156]

Regarding the Bat-fam, it would be great to at least have Dick and Babs.

This is what I really want but I also would like Tim to show up in a sequel.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Right. Batman could have branded Lex at the end of BvS, but held back. Also, I'm not sure if Suicide Squad takes place after BvS or not, but the machine guns have been removed from Batmobile -- so that's something.

Still, I wouldn't mind a Bat-movie that takes place before BvS, as long as it isn't too early in Batman's career. We've had too many of those already -- I want to see a Batman that already has an existing rogues gallery.

Yeah Pre or Post BvS, the Batman won't be as he was in BvS he will be a lot more cautious I'd imagine when dealing with thugs etc.

[darkseidpwns]

She would've actually been in a better position to be both as far as Nolan-verse is concerned. Unlike so many of the "iconic" characters where they had to do away with many outlandish or ridiculous elements to make it believable, like the Lazarus Pit, Bane's venom addiction, Robin as a sidekick etc. etc., Helena's backstory is already grounded in reality, no modifications really required to make her a fleshed-out character that better fits Nolan's noir style approach to the franchise.

Let's forget about her comic book associations for a minute and simply imagine Batman having to deal with someone who hunts down mob bosses and doesn't shy away from taking down those who gets in her way, someone who's just as ferocious and merciless a fighter shaped by a tragic childhood past, who feels as justified in her actions as a rich orphan beating up criminals at night... and that's only her night time job. During the day she's this rich and resourceful... playgirl(?) exploiting the power vacuum created by taking over the mafias which allows her to mixing with the corrupt high societies in Gotham and Bruce Wayne. She's like a gangster version of Bruce Wayne, only that she's getting rid of all the gangsters in Gotham by being/pretending to be one... there is so much potential there to turn the comic book Huntress around and bring her to the "level" of Catwoman and whatnot, cinematically speaking.

But I can understand it may be hard to disgorge her comic book presence from people's minds, which has always been on the periphery. Still, whether you want to see this in hindsight or not, TDK owed its larger success vis-a-vis TDKR to its crime noir elements with a twist of comic book sprinkled on top, where TDKR could've benefitted greatly from having more grounded characters from the get-go.

Except Nolan didn't want a noir style approach, he didn't want to reenact TDK, he wanted this movie to be as different from TDK as possible, he had no interest in revisiting the mob. If he did he'd have gone with Two-Face anyway.
Catwoman was positively received near universally so I'm not sure where this argument is coming from and we already had a Helena acting as both a love interest and villain over at Arrow and suffice to say unlike Selina she wasn't well received or she'd have been a mainstay on that show.