When did mainstream super hero comics become "story-lite"?

[GhostPirate]

I'd rather have it like this than the Claremont dialogue-heavy way. Reading the Claremont X-Men or Simonson's Thor run was a chore simply because the excessive amount of unnecessary CRAP (not exposition, crap) the characters would spout. It adds nothing to the story and is an insult to readers.

That "crap" was actually this thing once known as "character development", and people complaining about writers using their words to tell a story being referred to as "readers" is, ironically, actually more of an insult to readers.

[gurkle]

Though obviously it doesn't start there, I would say a big turning point was Ultimate Spider-Man, which set out to make "decompression" part of its whole strategy. The first arc took an origin story that took 10 pages to tell and spent 4 issues on it. And instead of turning people off, it actually came off as a fresh approach to storytelling at a company that was known up till then for a rather old-fashioned writing style (and was still using very compressed storytelling in most of its flagship books).

Soon after USM launched there was a management shakeup at Marvel and Joe Quesada came in with a mandate to modernize the writing style at the company, so USM became a sort of model for how Marvel comics should be written, and the old compressed style became rare at Marvel, while DC was already moving in that direction.

[Nick Miller]

When writers started writing 3,4, or 5 books a month. Along with tv/film projects, and maybe a job too.

Come up with one story, and write the dialogue for 6 months. Sooo much work!

Correct me if im wrong, but simonson, claremont, wein, wolfman, gaiman, f miller, moore
These guys worked on one book at a time, maybe 2. Enough time to craft a story.

[Nick Miller]

That "crap" was actually this thing once known as "character development", and people complaining about writers using their words to tell a story being referred to as "readers" is, ironically, actually more of an insult to readers.

Along with thought bubbles and narration, which drew the reader into the world.

Imagine reading a novel or short story, and its all dialogue, lol

[Rincewind]

Along with thought bubbles and narration, which drew the reader into the world.

Imagine reading a novel or short story, and its all dialogue, lol

Except that comics are inherently different from prose. The art of the comic is a dynamic part of the storytelling process. Comics that rely heavily of thought balloons or narrator captions ofter are just relaying information that should be clear from the art. For instance, how many comics have you read where the characters are explaining their powers as they are using them? Or describing the action as it is occurring? TV tropes has section on "Talking is a free action" and "Wall of Text" to show examples of how they can be used poorly.

The skill of the writer can minimize these weaknesses or bypass them all together. PeterDavid, Roger Stern, or Fabian Nicieza can write a character or story (done in one or serialized) that can appeal to any type of reader.

Also remember that some of the greatest stories from any period are the longer stories. Stories like the Dark Phoenix Saga, Demon in a Bottle, or the original Hobgoblin story are all done over many issues. I would also say that it would be impossible to tell those stories in a single issue and have them be nearly as effective.

[RumpusMagoo]

Though obviously it doesn't start there, I would say a big turning point was Ultimate Spider-Man, which set out to make "decompression" part of its whole strategy. The first arc took an origin story that took 10 pages to tell and spent 4 issues on it. And instead of turning people off, it actually came off as a fresh approach to storytelling at a company that was known up till then for a rather old-fashioned writing style (and was still using very compressed storytelling in most of its flagship books).

Soon after USM launched there was a management shakeup at Marvel and Joe Quesada came in with a mandate to modernize the writing style at the company, so USM became a sort of model for how Marvel comics should be written, and the old compressed style became rare at Marvel, while DC was already moving in that direction.

I would agree with you, but I'd also add that the 90's art style of splash pages and cool posing also contributed to a slowing down of story, as well as downgrading the medium of the sequential art that made it famous.

[John Aston]

Writing for the trade -- put it on Marvel's doorstep. They have the bad habit of taking something that sticks and driving it through the ground. Bendis has always written for collections, even when he was small press. This worked for Marvel. Trades boomed. So, corporate-think says everything must have a 5 or 6 issue story arc even if the story content isn't meaty enough. Sometimes it's okay to have a six issue trade with a 3-parter, 2-parter and a 1-shot or whatever combination. Justice Society did whatever combination as did Jonah Hex.

[Gaastra]

Carl barks scrooge comics. In 10 pages he told more story then 5 comics combined today!

[koonfasa]

I always figured mainstream heroes were story lite, like action movies that they were. I think it was the B heroes that got heavy stories because writers could take them where A-listers wouldn't be allowed to go. And that along with our "Understanding Comics" over time gave them depth and made them big. It's pretty evolved now...

[JBatmanFan05]

Writing for the trade is the culprit and I hope more push back on it in various ways like:

1) it's written for trade, but each issue packs more story
2) or each trade starts to contain 2-3 or more shorter arcs

[Citizen Kane]

I think a lot of this dead space can be attributed to the lack of experience and skill within the comic book workforce; which becomes especially apparent when a sizable portion of these workers are involved with companies and titles that have high-exposure rates. Perhaps, the general conception is that story doesn't attract readers, flashy images do, which allows for sub-par creators to enter the industry, saving the big companies a few bucks and allowing them to meet their bare-minimum requirements for quality.

[Orion]

I think what we think of as "modern decompressed writing" pretty much started with The Authority, The Ultimates, and Ultimate Spider-man. All three are of course modern classic masterpieces, but people learned the wrong lessons from them or just lazily copied their structure without giving us their content.

[My Two Cents]

I would say Stan Lee gave birth to it between 1966-1967.
For the first few years Marvel was putting in a lot of panels and words into there comics
and than suddenly there was less panels (along with more splash pages) and a lot
less words. That continued for a few years and than gradually saw more words and less
slash pages as other writers took over the books.

[John Aston]

Dump this on Marvel's doorstep. They are the biggest offender when it comes to driving something that works into the ground. For the longest time, they have accumulated writers who either not ready for prime time; writing for single volume graphic novel which is expensive for (at least) $3.99 an issue (chapter); or writers coming from or aspiring to get into other media (TV/novels) and don't understand the comic book medium (i.e. the visuals are important, too).

I've held onto Daredevil but I've generally dumped Marvel for their content quality. I'll pick up a collection here or there (Superior Foes, Fraction/Aja Hawkeye) that passes the smell test. New 52 zapped DC for me. I've dipped my toe back in for specific characters, but, haven't reconnected with the company. DC, however, has managed to get a little bit of money out of me since Rebirth.