Amazonian attitudes to LBGT

[girlverine]

How do the Amazon's usually treat LBGT issues?

I admit, I haven't followed much of Wonder Woman, but it's a topic I'm curious about. Given their backstory, I imagine homosexuality isn't a big deal for them...

But what about trans people? Would they consider trans women sisters, or do they have any cultural hang-ups about that?

[Bosch]

Prior to the New 52, they were fine with lesbianism, though mostly it went unmentioned. Diana officiated a gay marriage in Sensational last year and said "Clark, my country is all women. To us, it's not 'gay marriage,' it's just marriage," but that title's totally outside of continuity. I don't know about the New 52. Trans issues haven't been touched in any Wondy title, to my knowledge. Which is probably for the best, considering how shite their writers have been.

[borntohula]

First off, continuity is off the table. The multiversity is supposed to make it so that anything can and will exist. So it's up to you, for your choosing. Sensational comics can be your main Wonder Woman.

Regarding the new 52, WW#0-35 by Azzarello and Chiang. It doesn't mention anything lesbian but an amazon is having a crush on Diana, and it seems that there isn't any shame involved. So I figure -in that story that- they're okay with women loving women.

While the run doesn't go into transgender-territory, it did at least brings some Agender-theory to the table. Constantly putting gender to question, if it's about nurture or nature, while also going into duality (for example suggesting that Zeus is both a mother as well as a father.).

It wouldn't surprise me if Grant Morrison's Earth 1 Wonder Woman book will touch upon transgender men and fems, lesbians and such. I think his positivity would gel well LBGT stuff in a Wonder Woman story

[ShaunN]

I think that it's utterly nonsensical to imagine that the Amazons have any kind of problem with lesbianism at all. The Amazons are lesbians - it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise and it's only North American (really American) cultural and religious hangups about this that have meant DC has not just spelled this out with neon signs. Way back in the 1980s (if not long before, in much more subtle ways) George Perez made it clear that lesbianism was a "thing" on the island. Today, I think that we should just assume that the great majority of Amazons are lesbian and leave it at that. Clearly, they have no problem with heterosexualism, but they would surely not consider that the norm or part of their everyday lives.

Where they would stand on trans issues is more complicated. It depends on the version of the Amazons that you are talking about. The humane, compassionate Amazons who were the norm for most of WW's existence would probably have no difficulty with it at all. The savage, man-hating, murderous Amazons that Azzarello introduced and who are, apparently, still the standard for the current, new 52 universe, would probably have a huge problem with trans people - but that comes more out of their contempt for men than anything else, I would guess. As a previous commentator noted, the Greek gods were actually very fluid with their gender. But Azzarello's Amazons are a different kind of society and I don't think they would take kindly to a biological woman wanting to change to a man. On the other hand, they may have no problem with a man wanting to change to a woman.

[borntohula]

While warrior like (--some calls "murderous") the Azz-amazons seem open to reform. At least if their queens calls for it and the need presents itself. As when they became the mothers (protectors) of Zeke, or embraced their brothers by becoming sisters/brothers in arms.

But regardless version of the amazons, I think an amazon becoming a man-story would make for an interesting read with some potentially good and interesting points.

[Tayswift]

First off, continuity is off the table. The multiversity is supposed to make it so that anything can and will exist. So it's up to you, for your choosing. Sensational comics can be your main Wonder Woman.

Regarding the new 52, WW#0-35 by Azzarello and Chiang. It doesn't mention anything lesbian but an amazon is having a crush on Diana, and it seems that there isn't any shame involved. So I figure -in that story that- they're okay with women loving women.

While the run doesn't go into transgender-territory, it did at least brings some Agender-theory to the table. Constantly putting gender to question, if it's about nurture or nature, while also going into duality (for example suggesting that Zeus is both a mother as well as a father.).

It wouldn't surprise me if Grant Morrison's Earth 1 Wonder Woman book will touch upon transgender men and fems, lesbians and such. I think his positivity would gel well LBGT stuff in a Wonder Woman story

that would only be true if there wasn't main universe and various WW ongoing. that is not the case, so continuity/canon matters.

I don't know nothing was really made explicit, now it is the time to show things. subtitle isn't acceptable anymore. so new 52 wonder woman is very not LGBT

earth one book there is lesbians there. the critic I read and images made me raise my eyebrow

[Bosch]

While the run doesn't go into transgender-territory, it did at least brings some Agender-theory to the table. Constantly putting gender to question, if it's about nurture or nature, while also going into duality (for example suggesting that Zeus is both a mother as well as a father.).

I don't want to get jumped on here (I'm not saying it'd be by you!), but I don't see where you're getting that from Azzarello. Admittedly I stopped after the first four TPBs, but unless something changes thereafter, a lot of his characterizations of important female characters were pretty retrograde. To not even touch the issue of his Amazons, Hera's still the same bitter termagant caricature that she's been in every Greek-inspired fantasy since forever, Artemis is little more than Apollo's lackey, Diana's "legitimized" through her being a daughter of Zeus, etc. And rather than deconstruct or poke holes in how heavily gendered all that stuff really is, he just kind of takes it for granted.

[Gaelforce]

Listen up and listen good.

This is a *very* sensitive subject, so if you cannot approach it with maturity, civility and delicacy, then please keep your thoughts to yourself.

No personal attacks. No 'group' personal attacks, which means no 'all the xyz are...' slams.

No foul language. That's a hard rule for the WW forum posted in a sticky at the top of the page.

This is my ONLY warning in this thread. Next deletions will be followed by bans, temporary or otherwise.

[borntohula]

that would only be true if there wasn't main universe and various WW ongoing. that is not the case, so continuity/canon matters.

--imagine like a champagne glass and you picture all these bubbles rising and giving form to each other, that's what the real multiverse looks like. It's a much bigger scale. It's infinite.

It's how I see things-DC. For example, De Liz's Legend of Wonder Woman now being my main WW book just like Azz/Chiang's was.

earth one book there is lesbians there. the critic I read and images made me raise my eyebrow

I read some very positive reviews among the critical Anne-one that was all the rage. Regardless, I think/hope Morrison will touch upon some LGTB stuff. Especially since he often injects his stories with alot of positivity.

I don't want to get jumped on here (I'm not saying it'd be by you!), but I don't see where you're getting that from Azzarello. Admittedly I stopped after the first four TPBs...

There are two more books, and from the sound of it the run perhaps isn't to your likening. No worries. Each to their own. I don't want to be jumped either.

That said, Azzarello leaves lot open for different interpretation. One example is his Hellblazer run (also a very polarizing run), which -if you know where to look- can be read as if John Constantine former boyfriend Wayne Manor is Bruce Wayne.

[vasir12]

Legend of Wonder Woman is good but it would be better if they put some lgbt themes. Earth one seems like the first time the subject will be blatant and I appreciate that to hints and nods. However, if you look hard enough, you'll find some implied same sex couples among the amazons. As for trans people, I don't think that's even been suggested (could be wrong though). Maybe earth one will bring that up too.

[Nyssane]

Legend of Wonder Woman is good but it would be better if they put some lgbt themes. Earth one seems like the first time the subject will be blatant and I appreciate that to hints and nods. However, if you look hard enough, you'll find some implied same sex couples among the amazons. As for trans people, I don't think that's even been suggested (could be wrong though). Maybe earth one will bring that up too.

Legend of WW heavily implied that Hippolyta and Phillipus are lovers.

[Tayswift]

Legend of WW heavily implied that Hippolyta and Phillipus are lovers.

it is a all-ages book so subtitle is the best way

[vasir12]

it is a all-ages book so subtitle is the best way

I never considered lgbt themes as something you had to shield away from children but I get that thinking, I guess.

[Tayswift]

I never considered lgbt themes as something you had to shield away from children but I get that thinking, I guess.

many parents think very differently. some cartoons like steven universe and adventure time have gay couples. sure it is more subtext than anything

[Tayswift]

It's how I see things-DC. For example, De Liz's Legend of Wonder Woman now being my main WW book just like Azz/Chiang's was.

this is called personal preference, Legendofww doesn't substitute the new52 book story on DC main continuity.

I read some very positive reviews among the critical Anne-one that was all the rage. Regardless, I think/hope Morrison will touch upon some LGTB stuff. Especially since he often injects his stories with alot of positivity.

I don't see anything about rage on ms anne review, seemed very balanced and with real concerns.