Brexit or Britain Stronger?

[The Lonely Man]

I'm pretty sure I'd consider myself as an 'ordinary person' yet I don't follow your point at all. Are you saying immigrants and asylum seekers from the middle east shouldn't be welcome because they come from a troubled background ? Namely a war zone.

Also, what do you mean by they bring their problems with them ?

[aja_christopher]

I really doubt that Britain will now try to conquer the rest of Europe. Nationalism is not bad per se and does not automatically mean war.

Of course not -- Britain should have gotten all of that "conquering and colonizing other nations" stuff out of their system by now, since they did enough of it last millenium. A lot of nations (India, Africa, Ireland, etc) are still shaking off the effects of said imperialism, so -- as with Germany -- I doubt it would happen again any time soon with those conflicts so fresh in people's memories.

I was just making a point about how one has to be careful just how far one goes in supporting such "movements".

We've already seen one political activist get murdered in cold blood out on the streets of England by one such Brexit supporter, so let's not pretend the potential isn't there, even if it is relatively miniscule.

[jeanvaljean]

On the other, this might the incentive for the EU to rethink its financing. As a Spaniard, I think you Germans have been unjustly paying for our high corruption rates and wasteful spending that only served to inflate politicians' egos and impress stupid voters.

The Germans also know they profit more from the EUROPEAN than a mere "net payer" status would betray.

Can you imagine how strong the Deutschmark would have become during the Greece crisis? They could have kissed their exports goodbye.

[Trey Strain]

I'm pretty sure I'd consider myself as an 'ordinary person' yet I don't follow your point at all. Are you saying immigrants and asylum seekers from the middle east shouldn't be welcome because they come from a troubled background ? Namely a war zone.

Also, what do you mean by they bring their problems with them ?

I'm telling you why people voted the way they did. You're not addressing those concern any more than Britain's leaders have. It's always, "You're a bad person,:" and that's just not going to fly any more.

[jeanvaljean]

Ordinary people in Europe and the United States don't want the Middle East pulling up roots and resettling in the West, and then their leaders and their elites calling them bad people for not wanting that. They particularly resent the fact that their leaders and elites live in exclusive redoubts far removed from where the immigrants settle.

there's an idea out there that when people leave the Middle East they leave all their problems behind, but that's not true. Experience is proving that they bring many of their problems along with them, and that they're persistent.

But you know what? I think the leaders and elites still don't get the message. I think they won't change one thing they're doing, because they'll continue to see the refugees as simply as new voters who will support them.

I'm very sorry.

[Trey Strain]

I'm pretty sure I'd consider myself as an 'ordinary person' yet I don't follow your point at all. Are you saying immigrants and asylum seekers from the middle east shouldn't be welcome because they come from a troubled background ? Namely a war zone.

Also, what do you mean by they bring their problems with them ?

I'm telling you why people voted the way they did, and, like the European elites, you dismiss those concerns and act offended that anyone could think that mass immigration from the Middle East might not be a great idea.

What problems some along with that? Well, how about the terror attacks? Have you not noticed them and recognized that they're a growing problem? If not, then how many of them would it take to get your attention? Or do you think they're something that the West can and should accept and manage?

[The Lonely Man]

Morgan Stanley have begun the process of moving 2000 investment jobs from London to Dublin and Frankfurt.

Jeepers, if only we had some sort of warning this may happen.

[kane]

Of course not -- Britain should have gotten all of that "conquering and colonizing other nations" stuff out of their system by now.

I was just making a point about how one has to be careful just how far one goes in supporting such "movements".

We've already seen one political activist get murdered in cold blood out on the streets of England by one such supporter, so let's not pretend the potential isn't there, even if it is relatively miniscule.

That is true. But such a potential lies in every political movement.

[Brigonos Chomhgaill]

I'm not a Blairite or a Conservative. I'm an unaffiliated voter who can see that Corbyn has terrible national approval ratings and that his half-hearted campaign has led, in part, to this disastrous vote, which is much more important than most general elections. I barely heard from Labour over these last few weeks, except for Sadiq Khan.

Didn't it strike you as even a little bit odd at some point that the obsessive media coverage of Corbyn that we've seen since his landslide victory had mysteriously evaporated during the referendum when he was actively seeking media attention? There are plenty of accounts of Corbyn campaigning hard for Remain, much like there are plenty of polls showing his approval ratings being higher than the Prime Minister's. Yougov - famously founded by a Conservative and a man married to a peer appointed by Tony Blair - had Corbyn with 72% approval within the party even after fiddling the numbers to make him look as bad as possible, so he's unlikely to be going anywhere but his wanking shed.
Don't give me that look, we all know what allotment sheds are for.

People it will tell you its those fantastic beasts, the Blairites. Actually, it's peoplw who want to be led in a way which even vaguely approaches competence, not by a small personality cult.

LOL! The Blairites are a tiny minority within the Labour party who are hated by their own membership and who worship a war criminal hated by a cross-section of the British public that most notably includes not only his political opponents but the people who actually voted for him. They are an almost literal example of an isolationist cult.

[kane]

The Germans also know they profit more from the EUROPEAN than a mere "net payer" status would betray.

Can you imagine how strong the Deutschmark would have become during the Greece crisis? They could have kissed their exports goodbye.

Most of the time the "Deutsche Mark" was a hard currency and still the exports were strong. I agree that without the EUR the exports could have go down during the cris, but I think we still would be strong. And one could argue that without the EUR there would not be a Greece crisis, because the Greek would have control over their own currency and because the other members would not have to care that the Greeks will destroy the EUR.

[Coin Biter]

LOL! The Blairites are a tiny minority within the Labour party who are hated by their own membership and who worship a war criminal hated by a cross-section of the British public that most notably includes not only his political opponents but the people who actually voted for him. They are an almost literal example of an isolationist cult.

Blair was last Prime Minister in 2007. We've had one Labour Prime Minister and two Labour Leaders since then. Labour MPs are not disenchanted with Corbyn's leadership because they're hiding in secret underground vaults, praying before the perma-tanned Prince of the Middle East peace process. They're disenchanted because they've woken up to a Britain which has voted to leave the EU, because much of that is because of the vote from the Labour heartlands to leave, and because they don't think Jeremy Corbyn can win. They really don't.

Anyway, Corbyn's leadership a decision for the Labour Parliamentary Party, followed by the national party's membership, and if he still is there, we'll see the verdict of the public at the next election. Apologies for my taking us down this cul-de-sac.

In any event, the fallout for the UK today has far worse consequences than any decision over the leadership of the Labour party.

[Supernature]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Vic Vega]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Oh, this is gonna be GOOD.

[Brigonos Chomhgaill]

They're disenchanted because they've woken up to a Britain which has voted to leave the EU

They've been disenchanted since Corbyn was elected a year ago and they were revealed to be a minority faction in the upper echelons of the party throttling the selection process to keep left-wing MPs out. The idea that the EU vote is any kind of watermark is a strange one, as it's just another false flag media campaign by a tiny group of political chancers who refuse to accept that they got lucky when John Smith passed away but will never be in charge of the party again.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Does anyone have that gif of the Joker eating popcorn handy?

[Trey Strain]

Europe's elites have told Europeans that to live among a massive influx of immigrants from the Middle East will not only improve their lives but is also the right thing to do. And they've morally condemned anyone who has thought that this might not be a good idea. But all the while, they've avoided living among the refugees.

Why is anyone surprised that this is not turning out well?