Brexit or Britain Stronger?

[Zelena]

Of course, I understand some of the driving forces behind potential Scottish exit.

I am just arguing it would be a mistake…all Brits would end up worse off, I think.

I am also arguing there are some clear parallels to Brexit. Do you actually disagree with the similarities I have pointed out?

I’m sure it didn’t escaped the Scots…

What is the point of moaning on about past events (in this case Brexit) if we don’t learn from the past and avoid similar mistakes in the future?

During the last referendum, the Scots had been sufficiently pragmatic to vote against independence. It has been a rational choice.

Now they can see where their pragmatism has led them: being victim of the irrationality of English politicians who have made wonderful promises and of their electorate. It’s just logical they will take that in account for the next referendum.

(And democratic votes often go ways we don’t want them to go. I vote Labour but get a Conservative government. Has “my identity been ignored”?? No, its just the nature of democratic life.)

I know that the British electoral system is peculiar, that the head of state is not chosen by the people… Still, once appointed, he is supposed to represent everyone, from all parts of the political spectrum… Or is it the king?…

[Kirby101]

The #1 reason Scots voted against independence was staying in the EU, England turned around and slapped their faces. Getting back into the EU should be the #1 reason to now vote for independence.

[Catlady in training]

The first similarity is that it is bitterly divisive. Just as roughly half of people of people wanted to stay in EU, half wanted to leave. It also close to 50/50 of Scots want to stay/ leave the UK. That would not matter if people trusted each other’s goodwill, have a vote, accept the outcome, then work in harmony to secure the democratic outcome.

It hasn’t worked like that in Brexit case. People were bitter about outcome, friendships lost, exit negotiations undermined by lack of unity. Scotland leaving UK is even more divisive, families and friends both sides of the issue see relationships destroyed.

I understand, but that can be the case with every vote. My sadness about Brexit how the referendum turned out, but not that it happened at all, because people have the right to hold a referendum in democratic countries. Not giving Scotland even the choice to hold it, seems arogant and dismissive.

[4theEarth]

I understand, but that can be the case with every vote. My sadness about Brexit how the referendum turned out, but not that it happened at all, because people have the right to hold a referendum in democratic countries. Not giving Scotland even the choice to hold it, seems arogant and dismissive.

Agree that they have the right to leave the Union and it should be by referendum if at all. That said it seems just as hostile to take the vote as revenge on Brexit. The divide in Scotland is as old and complex as the one in Ireland was for a long time. Partition of Scotland is not something that people would like to see. That said personally joining up with larger governments seems like a poor choice every time. Leave but go it alone what is the point of Independence if you are just trading masters. The EU is a monster aborning.

[Kirby101]

The EUb has been a + benefit to every country in it. So Scotland should by all means join. So it is objectively not a poor choice every time. I think we can see here ideology over reality.

[4theEarth]

The EUb has been a + benefit to every country in it. So Scotland should by all means join. So it is objectively not a poor choice every time. I think we can see here ideology over reality.

Transparency is now an ideology? Alienation from so called representatives is real and impactful in creating the trust they had in their local governments during Covid. In becoming more like the US they are creating the same problems we have. If you mean they have gotten richer? That is an open question, as the usual disparities are there just under the cover of a common currency. Are we forgetting about austerity measures that people had no say in? Isn't that all too IMF? I get a newsletter on environmental issues in the EU once a week and the biggest "bad guy" is often the EU governance that is concerned with the free flow of money.

Here is a recent quote

The amount of wood burned for electricity generation and heating has increased greatly since the EU started counting it toward renewable energy targets. In the EU, over one-third of renewable energy now comes from burning wood, much of it sourced directly from forests.