Brexit or Britain Stronger?

[John Ossie]

Never mind.

[Starter Set]

Well it is ranked high, #5 but in terms of size, it is about as big as the GDP of California.



Of course after Brexit, especially a no deal Brexit, it will shrink considerably.

That picture says it all.

UK is a dwarf next to the two first. So yeah, sorry it's still "not by a long shot".

But eh, don't feel bad about it my dear British friends, we all are dwarves next to the US and China economies.

Any egyptian dude can say "eh, my country is the 10th largest military power in the world!!".

That's true, he's right. That still doesn't mean that the Egyptian army could do anything worth talking about.

[DebkoX]

I'm actually surprised that the German economy is not that much bigger than ours (I'm a Brit

[Tendrin]

I'm actually surprised that the German economy is not that much bigger than ours (I'm a Brit

Don't worry. Brexit will solve that matter of perception soon enough. :P

[JackDaw]

Don't worry. Brexit will solve that matter of perception soon enough. :P

Why would it make any difference if a reasonable trade deal is agreed?

Three years after decision to leave:-

1/ Cross party talks about best way to leave were started a week ago.

2/ Trade discussions have not started yet!

Both those could have started 3 years ago...if as both EU and UK Parliament both claim..they want UK exit on amicable terms.

An open question to remainers. Do all of you honestly believe that exit process has been managed in a reasonably competent manner??

I accept it’s a reasonably difficult task...but I also believe it has been managed incredibly badly.

[jetengine]

Why would it make any difference if a reasonable trade deal is agreed?

Three years after decision to leave:-

1/ Cross party talks about best way to leave were started a week ago.

2/ Trade discussions have not started yet!

Both those could have started 3 years ago...if as both EU and UK Parliament both claim..they want UK exit on amicable terms.

An open question to remainers. Do all of you honestly believe that exit process has been managed in a reasonably competent manner??

I accept it’s a reasonably difficult task...but I also believe it has been managed incredibly badly.

Its been a balls up from the start because Leave were justifiably paranoid that people would start to figure out how much shit they were selling and ask for a do-over. So instead of waiting to work things out they just pushed the button.

[Tendrin]

Why would it make any difference if a reasonable trade deal is agreed?

Three years after decision to leave:-

1/ Cross party talks about best way to leave were started a week ago.

2/ Trade discussions have not started yet!

Both those could have started 3 years ago...if as both EU and UK Parliament both claim..they want UK exit on amicable terms.

An open question to remainers. Do all of you honestly believe that exit process has been managed in a reasonably competent manner??

I accept it’s a reasonably difficult task...but I also believe it has been managed incredibly badly.

Even a 'reasonable' trade deal is likely to leave the UK in a weaker position. A second Scottish indepdenence referendum is likely, which will of course have an impact, to say nothing of the issues with the Irish border.

Numerous companies have already announced their intention to leave. London's position as a financial center is likely to suffer a decline as well. Brexit isn't going to do anything 'reasonable' for the UK economy.

[Kirby101]

That is the problem. Reasonable trade deals with the rest of the world evolved over decades for those other independent countries. Britain is trying it in months, with a completely incompetent Government. And they are leaving a favorable trade union that has benefited them for years. But at least more immigrants won't be able to get in.

[JackDaw]

That is the problem. Reasonable trade deals with the rest of the world evolved over decades for those other independent countries. Britain is trying it in months, with a completely incompetent Government. And they are leaving a favorable trade union that has benefited them for years. But at least more immigrants won't be able to get in.

Why over months?

The exit vote was 3 years ago.

There was no logistical reason why trade negotiations could not have started three years ago, and run in parallel with discussion over exit compensation.

And..of course..as EU and UK started from same position on trade regs, etc..the discussions should have been less slow than most trade discussions. (David Davis’s...the first Brexit Secretary’s claim of “done in 2 weeks” was always a daft claim...but done in 2 years should have been achievable.)

When you look at way exit negotiations have been done there have been some horrible mistakes. I often wonder why remainers seem..by and large...to be in complete denial about that.

[Kirby101]

Why over months?

The exit vote was 3 years ago.

There was no logistical reason why trade negotiations could not have started three years ago, and run in parallel with discussion over exit compensation.

And..of course..as EU and UK started from same position on trade regs, etc..the discussions should have been less slow than most trade discussions. (David Davis’s...the first Brexit Secretary’s claim of “done in 2 weeks” was always a daft claim...but done in 2 years should have been achievable.)

When you look at way exit negotiations have been done there have been some horrible mistakes. I often wonder why remainers seem..by and large...to be in complete denial about that.

That's the point mate. The whole of Brexit was organized by incompetent liars who didn't know what they were doing. Appealing to the worst of the people's nature and with no realistic understanding what was involved. Once the political stunt succeeded, they were lost and had no real plan how to go forward. Even the Irish border is beyond them.
So saying, "other countries have their own economy" is besides the point. Brexit, as it was proposed and how it is executed is a disaster. The remainers are completely aware of how bad things have been executed and how much BS the Breiters were spewing.
This isn't an abstract debate about how things could have gone well. it's the real possibility that Britain will be screwed royally by the Brexiters and how they are messing up.

[iron chimp]

Should have voted to enter. Thanks Tony....

[JackDaw]

That's the point mate. The whole of Brexit was organized by incompetent liars who didn't know what they were doing. Appealing to the worst of the people's nature and with no realistic understanding what was involved. Once the political stunt succeeded, they were lost and had no real plan how to go forward. Even the Irish border is beyond them.
So saying, "other countries have their own economy" is besides the point. Brexit, as it was proposed and how it is executed is a disaster. The remainers are completely aware of how bad things have been executed and how much BS the Breiters were spewing.
This isn't an abstract debate about how things could have gone well. it's the real possibility that Britain will be screwed royally by the Brexiters and how they are messing up.

Yes, I agree.

If it does come to a second referendum..I would have to (effectively) to vote to revoke Article 50, and U.K. remain in EU.

It would be with a heavy heart...because I still think a competent exit...was in UK’s best long term interests.

But a competent exit isn’t “on offer”.

[Kusanagi]

When you look at way exit negotiations have been done there have been some horrible mistakes. I often wonder why remainers seem..by and large...to be in complete denial about that.

As an outsider, I don't see any contradiction between remainers 3 years ago saying. "This is a bad idea, it will hurt us economically, and we are lead by incompetent liars who will likely drive us off a cliff." and now saying "See, we were lead by incompetent liars who are driving us off a cliff, we should have remained."

[iron chimp]

Yes, I agree.

If it does come to a second referendum..I would have to (effectively) to vote to revoke Article 50, and U.K. remain in EU.

It would be with a heavy heart...because I still think a competent exit...was in UK’s best long term interests.

But a competent exit isn’t “on offer”.

I didnt vote as i could see positives and negatives to either side but over time i just think EUs borders are too big, too hostile/unstable, and there is neither the will nor the equipment barring france and uk to be able to defend them properly.

Many eu countries seem to be slipping further into hard right positions and whole thing is going to end up ugly. Id rather be out and broke than in that cauldron.

[JackDaw]

As an outsider, I don't see any contradiction between remainers 3 years ago saying. "This is a bad idea, it will hurt us economically, and we are lead by incompetent liars who will likely drive us off a cliff." and now saying "See, we were lead by incompetent liars who are driving us off a cliff, we should have remained."

The two..of course..are not contradictory.

But...of course..those two statements don’t mean the same thing.

It’s the the difference between believing (as some remainers do) that the very idea of exit was so flawed that a good orderly was completely impossible, and believing that a good orderly exit was possible with a good level of competence.

As my colleague Kirby has pointed out..the difference doesn’t matter now...the path of prudence would be to revoke Article 50 if that is politically possible.

But it will potentially matter in the future. If people genuinely believe it was a lack of competence that frustrated a reasonable deal (rather than task being impossible)...then the matter (of potential exit) will continue to run and run.