¿who do you like more Superman PreFlashpoint or Superman New 52?

[Kuwagaton]

If I want brash and inexperienced, there is a whole half of Marvel that specializes in that, and tons of indies. That's not what I read Superman to get. Anyone who isn't writing him as assertive isn't doing a great job anyway.

[Francisco]

If I want brash and inexperienced, there is a whole half of Marvel that specializes in that, and tons of indies. That's not what I read Superman to get. Anyone who isn't writing him as assertive isn't doing a great job anyway.

It's called having a complex personality. He can be all those things (as a matter of fact new 52 is all those things at the same time) He lost his powers but instead of walking across America he bought himself a motorcycle.

[DieHard200904]

only one character that lost a lot of popularity is small thing near a entire universe being killed.
post crisis earth never happened because COIE didn't happened, you see the rebirth promo pre crises JLA and JSA.
flashpoint is what post crisis earth should be, and Dc already expressed no interest in postcrisis earth. even if superman return to that earth, they won't show any story set there

Of course they can, if they really want to. They had no problem showing Kal-L stories in 1978 in his own universe when he was not the canon Superman. Basically, what DC wants to do, they really can, and that shows full well how much of a priority or concern Superman is to them.

[Kuwagaton]

It's called having a complex personality. He can be all those things (as a matter of fact new 52 is all those things at the same time) He lost his powers but instead of walking across America he bought himself a motorcycle.

Humble with sharp charisma, sure. But he's not brash and inexperienced while he's self assured and experienced, that's a contradiction that would pretty much have to exist in bad writing .

He can be brash and inexperienced, but the obvious idea is that he doesn't stay that way. Morrison got him past that stage pretty quickly.

Your other point I don't get. Grounded by way of Harley would still be a bad story, Truth having him run everywhere really fast probably wouldn't be better or worse.

[Francisco]

Humble with sharp charisma, sure. But he's not brash and inexperienced while he's self assured and experienced, that's a contradiction that would pretty much have to exist in bad storytelling.

He can be brash and inexperienced, but the obvious idea is that he doesn't stay that way. Morrison got him past that stage pretty quickly.

Your other point I don't get. Grounded by way of Harley would still be a bad story, Truth having him run everywhere really fast probably wouldn't be better or worse.

Not it wouldn't be a bad story because instead of self-pitying and wandering aimlessly he is actually actively fighting Vandal Savage and his minions, punching up instead of down. He is brash in the sense that from time to time something terrible happens and he loses it for a split second. He recomposes himself almost immediately but we get a glimpse of his inner fire. By inexperienced I meant in the context of that story not as a default feature.

[Kuwagaton]

Oh man, not that "punching down" stuff, lol

You're mashing up what I said. What I call bad is trying to have it both ways in terms of Superman' s confidence and capability as a hero. What I also call bad is Grounded by any means, and potentially the story of Truth if the only change is in the surface details.

As far as his activity during the story, I fail to see how fighting the good fight without powers is anything exclusive to the New 52. Johns had him without powers, too, somewhat near the end of that pre flashpoint era.

Having a seasoned Superman lose it works when you nerf him, I guess. But he was just as impulsive with his powers in the Pak run. That to me is a weaker Superman. Flaws are welcome, though, so I can get it if it's handled with maybe some subtlety.

[Anis]

I know DC care more about Batman but at least they should try to expand and unify SM fan base, not dividing them. By replacing prime universe Superman with the dead universe Superman they're asking for the schism between the fans.

I was so ready to get back to SM titles after giving up the entire SM line in Truth. I thought DC let SM hit the rock bottom in Truth for a good reason. I thought they put him down just so they could build him back up. I was ready for the new beginning of Superman. THIS UNIVERSE's Superman.

I used to miss PF Superman. I was over the moon to see him and Lois re-appeared in Convergence. I enjoyed L&C run and I was willing to follow his adventure wherever DC creative team decided to take him.

I just wasn't prepare to lose N52 Supes just so Superdad could replace him right after he'd been put to hell and just got back. It isn't fair. Any death of Superman is the death of Superman. It doesn't matter if we have his replacement at hand to take over the role. It doesn't matter if the replacement himself is the REAL Superman from another universe because he's still isn't the same guy who's saved this world again and again and about to die trying the save the world and people that often treated him like shit one last time.

it's bloody depressing.

To rub it in, we still have Lex up and running with S-Shield on his chest acting being treated like a hero and has had a bigger role than Superman himself in JL.

Who do I like more? If DC handle the Rebirth right there shouldn't be any sense of loss after Rebirth. They have to show us WHY we're left with Superman we're getting when the universe moving forwards.

Superman of all characters shouldn't be a tragic figure. If I want to see the world where good doesn't always overcome evil and heroes can die in vain I have my real life to go back to.

[Rod G]

I read comments about New 52 having all these problems and suffering from this and from that but then I'm reading the books and I just can't see what is so wrong with the character and his pórtrayal. He is better now than ever. He just regained his powers after defeating Vandal Savage. He proved once again that even when his powers are weakened or gone he is still Superman and will always do the right thing or die trying. He is brash, flawed, inexperienced but self confident, smart, righteous and cool as hell. I just don't see what's the need to regurgitate the past.

Well said, Francisco. You hit the nail squarely on the head.

[Tayswift]

If I want brash and inexperienced, there is a whole half of Marvel that specializes in that, and tons of indies. That's not what I read Superman to get. Anyone who isn't writing him as assertive isn't doing a great job anyway.

kind of make me question why the need of a superboy.

[Dataweaver]

I think Kuwagaton overstated his case. If put it this way: if I'm looking for “brash and inexperienced”, Superman wouldn't be on my list. Superboy is a different story; indeed, the contrast between Superman's level-headed experience and Superboy's brash inexperience is a big part of what makes their dynamic work.

[Francisco]

kind of make me question why the need of a superboy.

The only Superboy we need is the one that used to be Clark Kent as a teenager. The way I see it there are too many Kryptonians around for my liking.

[Sacred Knight]

I am a fan of Kon-El, but I wouldn't go crazy if they went without the Superboy concept at all, at least for a while. They've screwed up Kon-El to the point that he needs a long break before being repackaged, and Jon will probably fail because they're going to push him way too hard and fast and he's going to end up resented. Someone at DC has been trying to force a Lane-Kent Superboy onto the mythos for a while, probably Didio, and now that its finally happening, they're going to go way overboard, you can tell already.

[Francisco]

I think Kuwagaton overstated his case. If put it this way: if I'm looking for “brash and inexperienced”, Superman wouldn't be on my list. Superboy is a different story; indeed, the contrast between Superman's level-headed experience and Superboy's brash inexperience is a big part of what makes their dynamic work.

Old, tired, been there done that, square, status quo, whipped and dependant, wouldn't be on my Superman list either. Young, dynamic, exciting, adventurous, self sufficient, alfa, man of the people, social crusader, space god, smart, genius. That's what I want in my Superman.

[Dataweaver]

Unless I missed something, the N52 Superman was never Superboy — whereas, if they choose to make use of it, Superdad was.

As for pushing Jon as Superboy: I'm pretty sure it's Johns who's been wanting to do a Super Sons thing. As for rushing it, we've had considerably more time with Jon's introduction than we ever did with Kon-El. I don't buy that it's rushed.

[Sacred Knight]

He was never concretely designated as "Superboy", no. Its been established he went on at least one adventure with the Legion, but Morrison never bothered classifying what he was called. And it really doesn't matter when you get right down to it. For all intents and purposes he was what the original design of Superboy was; a young Clark Kent with powers who had superheroic adventures.

And I didn't say that Jon was being rushed. I said he's going to be pushed too hard and fast. His being groomed for the role has been built up just fine. Its that I get the feeling they're going to Gary Stu him once he gets there, judging from interviews, comments, and solicitations.