DC needs a "street level hero" tier

[Agent Z]

For me, that illustrates just how "one note" DC's street tier heroes are. With the (wonderful) exception of Plastic Man none of them have any useful powers...they are all "handy with their fists and have attitude". They practically all have a strange relationship with armour, guns, and technology. Armour and guns are shunned because it makes things too easy?? But its fine if magic computers do great majority of detective work...no problem with "too easy" there.

Practical all riffs on Batman. Leave that model to Batman and Alfred...power up the rest.

If I was a ruthless super villain, I'd hand in my union card if I couldn't wipe floor with lot of them. Yes, I know some one will come along to advise me "its just comics, suspension of belief, blah, blah, blah....". Yes, it is super hero comics...so give the street level heroes, a respectable power set, for goodness sake.

Red Hood uses guns. As does Arsenal at times.

[sluggo]

I think it would solve the Batman problem. The reason Batman became a Bat-God is because he's always hanging out with super-heroes--and as DC's most popular character he had to be better than anyone else in his league. But if you change the frames of reference and the people that Batman hangs out with are not supers, then he can still be the best of the bunch, but he doesn't need to have impossible powers and he can get back to being the normal person he was always supposed to be.

That goes back to something I suggested a few weeks ago - split Batman into two characters. Have Bruce Wayne be the "bat-god" who is a member of the JLA and in the Batman monthly series he deals with villains like the league of assassins (Ra's, Talia, Bane, Damian etc.... the Dark Knight league), Hugo Strange, Vandel Savage etc... (ie - global threats), maybe even armor similar to Arkham Knight. While Dick becomes Gotham's Batman, who deals with the mods and villains like Two-Face, Pengiun and Joker.

[sluggo]

But a big reason people like those characters is specifically because they don't have powers (Plastic Man and Black Canary excluded). Superpowers are not required to be a superhero.

I'm not sure I follow what you're talking about with that "too easy" thing...

I think giving "street level" characters powers can be tricky (not impossible but tricky), if they become too powerful you lose that street level feel to them. If they can handle regular people too easily.......thats not good. You also wants to keep an element of danger around those characters. Once a character is impossible to hurt or kill.......

[Jim Kelly]

That goes back to something I suggested a few weeks ago - split Batman into two characters. Have Bruce Wayne be the "bat-god" who is a member of the JLA and in the Batman monthly series he deals with villains like the league of assassins (Ra's, Talia, Bane, Damian etc.... the Dark Knight league), Hugo Strange, Vandel Savage etc... (ie - global threats), maybe even armor similar to Arkham Knight. While Dick becomes Gotham's Batman, who deals with the mods and villains like Two-Face, Pengiun and Joker.

This seemed to be the approach in the past. There was a kind of Chinese wall between the Batman in the team books (JLA, B&B, WORLD'S FINEST, THE OUTSIDERS) and Batman in his own books (BATMAN, DETECTIVE, various one-shots and mini-series). When you read Batman in a Justice League adventure, you just accepted that Batman was different in those adventures; whereas, in his own books, he handled street level crimes and you didn't expect some super-hero to swing by and solve the case for him.

[JackDaw]

I think giving "street level" characters powers can be tricky (not impossible but tricky), if they become too powerful you lose that street level feel to them. If they can handle regular people too easily.......thats not good. You also wants to keep an element of danger around those characters. Once a character is impossible to hurt or kill.......

It's really not that difficult.

And it can be done successfully. Look at the evil empire (Marvel). There there's a shed load of variety in the guys that see street level action. Spider-man sees a load of street action...and at 40 times human speed and strength, enhanced agility, webs, warning sense (NB about as reliable as my first car) is a veritable power-house. Daredevil has one of most interesting power-sets in comics. Powerman has his near invulnerable skin and respectable strength. Even dear old Iron Fist can do useful stuff with the chi. And there's Hawkeye for those that insist on the non powered plucky under-dog. Then there's the Punisher as the example of the non powered guy who will use any advantage he can get his hands on to come out on top.

I quite like Batman as the non powered detective. But just wish there was some more variety in powers and attitudes in the street level set. Clearly DC can do it when they put their mind to it. The 2004 Manhunter series (before it lost the plot) was more or less a model of what a modern street level hero should be like...Kate was a low grade meta (increased strength, agility and physical recovery powers), who made very sensible use of high tech back-up. Jeez I liked that series.

[Ulysses]

It's really not that difficult.
I quite like Batman as the non powered detective. But just wish there was some more variety in powers and attitudes in the street level set. Clearly DC can do it when they put their mind to it. The 2004 Manhunter series (before it lost the plot) was more or less a model of what a modern street level hero should be like...Kate was a low grade meta (increased strength, agility and physical recovery powers), who made very sensible use of high tech back-up. Jeez I liked that series.

The original Question had urban shamanic powers in a mini series. I forget the explanation for it but it was very cool and made sense. Made for a good mini series too. I don't think Montoya had any powers though. So it's kind of a step back. I like Montoya but I miss Vic

My knee-jerk reaction is to say no to powers but when I think about it, yes I'd like to see someone like Huntress get a simple low-level power set. Even something very simple like enhanced vision (fits with the name). It might feel weird at first but I'd get used to it if the stories are good.

I also like Moon Knight's power set.

[sluggo]

Jason would be a good option, but he needs to be moved to a more permanent home in another city before he can do so. Having him in Gotham raises to many questions about his relation with his family.

It's really not that difficult.

And it can be done successfully. Look at the evil empire (Marvel). There there's a shed load of variety in the guys that see street level action. Spider-man sees a load of street action...and at 40 times human speed and strength, enhanced agility, webs, warning sense (NB about as reliable as my first car) is a veritable power-house. Daredevil has one of most interesting power-sets in comics. Powerman has his near invulnerable skin and respectable strength. Even dear old Iron Fist can do useful stuff with the chi. And there's Hawkeye for those that insist on the non powered plucky under-dog. Then there's the Punisher as the example of the non powered guy who will use any advantage he can get his hands on to come out on top.

I quite like Batman as the non powered detective. But just wish there was some more variety in powers and attitudes in the street level set. Clearly DC can do it when they put their mind to it. The 2004 Manhunter series (before it lost the plot) was more or less a model of what a modern street level hero should be like...Kate was a low grade meta (increased strength, agility and physical recovery powers), who made very sensible use of high tech back-up. Jeez I liked that series.

I said it can be tricky, not difficult. ANd of course i can be done, has been done, and will be done again. But you also can't just make a hero with X powers and say "street level" you do have to be aware and make sure the character you'd creating will fit in the way you want him too. Some people are saying plastic man should be one of these lower powered heroes, even though he is one of hte most powerful heroes in the DCU.

I really perfer Batman to Bat-god as well. If DC was willing to remove him from Justice League books and have him one of their top characters just in his own corner of the DCU (think how Wolverine and Spider-man used to be), I'd be VERY happy with that.

[sluggo]

The original Question had urban shamanic powers in a mini series. I forget the explanation for it but it was very cool and made sense. Made for a good mini series too. I don't think Montoya had any powers though. So it's kind of a step back. I like Montoya but I miss Vic

My knee-jerk reaction is to say no to powers but when I think about it, yes I'd like to see someone like Huntress get a simple low-level power set. Even something very simple like enhanced vision (fits with the name). It might feel weird at first but I'd get used to it if the stories are good.

I also like Moon Knight's power set.

Huntress is another good character they could move out of Gotham (I really do believe they need to spread these characters out and get them out from under Batman's shadow to really have them flourish) as either a solo character or part of a team.

[yash]

I think giving "street level" characters powers can be tricky (not impossible but tricky), if they become too powerful you lose that street level feel to them. If they can handle regular people too easily.......thats not good. You also wants to keep an element of danger around those characters. Once a character is impossible to hurt or kill.......

Ugh spiderman is street level,any hero who can get killed by a bullet is a street level hero