The Mighty Thor Appreciation

[butterflykyss]

Jane wasn't invading she just appeared in the middle of a developing situation, and contextually this was a raid. Like it or not that was a major part of the economy of the Vikings. Some historians try and reconstruct them because admittedly there was a lot more to their culture than raiding, but wherever settlements are found with evidence of nation building and economy there always seems to be evidence of raiding to, so it was a part of the culture.

Jane helps him fight an established villain. Is that so evil?

This connection with the Vikings is shown as having two sides. On the one hand Thor is shown as being connected to them, inspirational and inspired by them in turn, and on the other he is shown being pulled into the darker sides of their culture, raiding, drinking and carousing. It seems clear his worthiness is both tied to this relationship with humanity, and also limited by it. Which brings us right back to the ongoing themes of Aaron's run.

Worrying about the portrayal of Thor at a time he wasn't worthy seems a little odd.

I won't touch on what Vikings were historically known to do. I think the idea of raiding innocent people which would result in people being hurt if not killed is nothing to be boastful or be proud of. That said, Jane-Thor had enough sense to acknowledge Thor was being misogynistic; however, she doesn't see the wrong in them attacking and stealing from the Egyptians? That was completely hypocritical and in spite of Apocalypse past of being a villain in the context of this story he has done no wrong. So again I stand by my initial point that this story does not leave one to like the thors in my opinion.

[JKtheMac]

I won't touch on what Vikings were historically known to do. I think the idea of raiding innocent people which would result in people being hurt if not killed is nothing to be boast or be proud of. That said, Jane-Thor had enough sense to acknowledge Thor was being misogynistic; however, she doesn't see the wrong in them attacking and stealing from the Egyptians? That was completely hypocritical and in spite of Apocalypse past of bring a villain in the context of this story he has done no wrong. So again I stand by my initial point that this story does not leave one to like the thors in my opinion.

Pretty sure this comic is not advocating raiding as a pastime

[butterflykyss]

Pretty sure this comic is not advocating raiding as a pastime

could have fooled me :P

[leo619]

I have to agree regarding this issue, Thor of that time frame may not have known any better, but Jane had no excuse. This could have all been better addressed by just having an out and out battle between thor and apocalypse, without the idea of raiding and pillaging. Instead, for me personally, I saw the Thor's as the villains in this story due to them trying to conquer another countries land, never mind the fact that who they faced off against was a "villain." It's not about who they faced, it's about the actions they commit, and those actions are anything but good.

With that said, if/when Jane dies, I'm officially done with the series and won't be coming back until she makes her return. As for if she's coming back, that is a good question. Unlike the classic heroes, which has the "invincible power of returning to the status quo", new legacy characters doesn't have much luxury. With Captain America turning back to Falcon, and Miles debating on if he should be spider man or someone else entirely, it's possible that all of this shift at the same time could be like how the classic characters were steadily removed from the picture temporarily, or sadly it could be permanent. Marvel has made immense gains in diversity and thor is one of the top 5 selling books of that diverse push, but the thing about marvel is you don't know what they have planned to do.

I was originally convinced that Marvel wouldn't do anything to thor due to the fact that she was supposedly suppose to be a major part of legacy going forward according to the banner released. But as we see with Generations supposedly not being about time travel, Marvel does indeed lie. So time will tell. While I will be heavily disappointed of Jane is removed, at the same time that saves me more money. While this has been the best times in comics for me personally, my wallet occasionally gets a little strained from all the books I purchase, so it will allow me to save cash.

[butterflykyss]

I have to agree regarding this issue, Thor of that time frame may not have known any better, but Jane had no excuse. This could have all been better addressed by just having an out and out battle between thor and apocalypse, without the idea of raiding and pillaging. Instead, for me personally, I saw the Thor's as the villains in this story due to them trying to conquer another countries land, never mind the fact that who they faced off against was a "villain." It's not about who they faced, it's about the actions they commit, and those actions are anything but good.

With that said, if/when Jane dies, I'm officially done with the series and won't be coming back until she makes her return. As for if she's coming back, that is a good question. Unlike the classic heroes, which has the "invincible power of returning to the status quo", new legacy characters doesn't have much luxury. With Captain America turning back to Falcon, and Miles debating on if he should be spider man or someone else entirely, it's possible that all of this shift at the same time could be like how the classic characters were steadily removed from the picture temporarily, or sadly it could be permanent. Marvel has made immense gains in diversity and thor is one of the top 5 selling books of that diverse push, but the thing about marvel is you don't know what they have planned to do.

I was originally convinced that Marvel wouldn't do anything to thor due to the fact that she was supposedly suppose to be a major part of legacy going forward according to the banner released. But as we see with Generations supposedly not being about time travel, Marvel does indeed lie. So time will tell. While I will be heavily disappointed of Jane is removed, at the same time that saves me more money. While this has been the best times in comics for me personally, my wallet occasionally gets a little strained from all the books I purchase, so it will allow me to save cash.

completely agree . i was reading and thinking "I don't think i should be rooting for apocalypse but I am."

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Fair points, guys.

I thought Aaron managed to adequately craft a scenario where in which the actions of the Thors were justified, but we're still left with a story where the heroes aid the vikings in pillaging a foreign land.

Got to consider the broader implications of the story.

[kilderkin]

On the death of Thor teaser for legacy

I know janes on the cover but could this actually refer the war thor?

[JKtheMac]

On the death of Thor teaser for legacy

I know janes on the cover but could this actually refer the war thor?

I don't think so, but it may not be as clear cut as Jane dying. Generations even highlights the possibility of Jane giving up her humanity which has been on the cards for a while, but I think that would result in this Thor becoming unworthy too. It's all a catch 22.

It has seemed all along that Aaron has been making a strong case for the link with humanity being the key to worthiness. Generations double underlines this aspect and hangs bell on it. An anti-deism stance, that does not recognise divinity that fails to interact with the world. Jane can no longer exist alone and she cant allow herself to be subsumed into a deity that is not human.

This is the main reason I am so sceptical of the idea that Odinson is being written to bolster Jane. It is structurally the very opposite. Jane is being written to teach Odinson how to be worthy. She is a secondary character that was only ever written to do this.

Indeed from Aaron's account he wasn't even sure who would lift the hammer until after he had planned out the worthiness arc. I believe that if Jane as Thor hadn't been the huge success that it was, Odinson would have learnt this lesson months ago and Jane would be dead.

Instead we are getting a more nuanced story, where Jane is seeing visions of the door to Valhalla and a notion of her continuing after death is a very real possibility.

[leo619]

I don't think so, but it may not be as clear cut as Jane dying. Generations even highlights the possibility of Jane giving up her humanity which has been on the cards for a while, but I think that would result in this Thor becoming unworthy too. It's all a catch 22.

It has seemed all along that Aaron has been making a strong case for the link with humanity being the key to worthiness. Generations double underlines this aspect and hangs bell on it. An anti-deism stance, that does not recognise divinity that fails to interact with the world. Jane can no longer exist alone and she cant allow herself to be subsumed into a deity that is not human.

This is the main reason I am so sceptical of the idea that Odinson is being written to bolster Jane. It is structurally the very opposite. Jane is being written to teach Odinson how to be worthy. She is a secondary character that was only ever written to do this.

Indeed from Aaron's account he wasn't even sure who would lift the hammer until after he had planned out the worthiness arc. I believe that if Jane as Thor hadn't been the huge success that it was, Odinson would have learnt this lesson months ago and Jane would be dead.

Instead we are getting a more nuanced story, where Jane is seeing visions of the door to Valhalla and a notion of her continuing after death is a very real possibility.

Hmm... I'm thinking it could be also possible that it's a hybrid of the two, with War Thor dying as well as Jane dying, but Jane either takes war thor's hammer and odinson takes regular mjornir, or the reverse happen. That would arguably be the best way to keep both of them alive and worthy.

[JKtheMac]

Hmm... I'm thinking it could be also possible that it's a hybrid of the two, with War Thor dying as well as Jane dying, but Jane either takes war thor's hammer and odinson takes regular mjornir, or the reverse happen. That would arguably be the best way to keep both of them alive and worthy.

Now that we know for a fact (through the example of War Thor, and the overtly expressed themes of Generations) that the hammers are having a negative affect upon their weilders because of the storms bound in them, that isn't any form of solution. If Jane picked up Ultimate Mjölnir, she would probably become much more agressive and destructive. That hammer chose its weilder. Called to an angry grieving Volstagg. It wanted to be weilded that way, and it is clear it is altering his perceptions. The MU Mjölnir is doing something similar, to a lesser extent, but we are not clear what it wants.

The only solution I can see is get those storms out of the hammers and quick.

[Digifiend]

The cover of #701 shows a destroyed Mjolnir...

THEORY: If Jane dies in #700, she'll go to Valhalla. However, Odinson won't pick up the hammer. Instead it'll be destroyed (this is movie synergy, as it also gets destroyed in Ragnarok). He'll take it to the dwarves, who'll remould it with additional uru, creating two identical Mjolnirs. Odinson will take them, one for himself, and the other would be left on the moon... where Jane would emerge from Valhalla and come back to action. Her previous mortal form would indeed be gone, removing her time limit. Being willing to sacrifice herself is one of the reasons she's Worthy.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

From an upcoming issue.

[leo619]

From an upcoming issue.

I wonder what's happening here? Possibly a death somewhere?

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

[Digifiend]

I wonder what's happening here? Possibly a death somewhere?

If it's not to do with her own mortality, I would guess that something happened to Volstagg.