The Mighty Thor Appreciation

[brettc1]

Okay, let me see if I understand this... Jane Foster is dead, Mangog was fried to a crisp and took Mjolnir with him, right? Does this mean that Jarnbjorn is now Odinson's primary weapon?

I believe it was hinted he is going to kit himself out with a plethora of new hammers.

[Sutekh]

Okay, let me see if I understand this... Jane Foster is dead, Mangog was fried to a crisp and took Mjolnir with him, right? Does this mean that Jarnbjorn is now Odinson's primary weapon?

Jane seems pretty legitimately dead. Mangog and Mjolnir did indeed fly into the sun, but it remains to be seen if that could kill either of them. (Granted, the gravity and pressure might make it an effective prison, if nothing else.) Thor *said* that Mjolnir was destroyed, but it's not like he has a psychic link to his hammer and would know one way or another. (Plus, comic books. It's not like stuff hasn't been destroyed or people haven't been killed before, and then turned up just fine later.) We didn't get any artist's rendering of Mjolnir melting into slag, or Mangog charring down to fragments of bone, so this, as far as I'm concerned, is a 'Disney death,' where the villain falls off a cliff into some swirling fog and we never see or hear the splat (or the body), so it's easily reversed if they want that villain back for a sequel.

As for the discussion upthread, I am utterly amused that anybody thinks that Simonson's epic run *wasn't* a retcon, since it tied Thor and Asgard into Norse myth, and very clearly established that these characters were the gods of Norse myth, and not just space aliens mistaken for gods, as in the original Kirby version of Asgard, all gleaming with train tubes and flying machines and tube-shaped blaster weapons and whatnot. It also retold yet *another* tale of Ragnarok, which had been resolved five years earlier with the Red Norvell version of Thor and some shenanigans by 'benevolent' Odin (who has *often* been kind of a jerk...), who tricked some mortals into dying so that his family could skate on that fate (and led to the 'endless recurring Ragnaroks' retcon). Indeed, that's yet another retcon. For most of Simonson's run, Odin wasn't nearly the manipulative and ill-tempered old goat that he'd been for decades, and has returned to being again.

Simonson's run was a *great* retcon, but it was most definitely a retcon, in that it changed what had been established before (for the better, for the most part).

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Jane'll be in Valhalla now - the Norse Heaven.

[brettc1]

Jane seems pretty legitimately dead. Mangog and Mjolnir did indeed fly into the sun, but it remains to be seen if that could kill either of them. (Granted, the gravity and pressure might make it an effective prison, if nothing else.) Thor *said* that Mjolnir was destroyed, but it's not like he has a psychic link to his hammer and would know one way or another. (Plus, comic books. It's not like stuff hasn't been destroyed or people haven't been killed before, and then turned up just fine later.) We didn't get any artist's rendering of Mjolnir melting into slag, or Mangog charring down to fragments of bone, so this, as far as I'm concerned, is a 'Disney death,' where the villain falls off a cliff into some swirling fog and we never see or hear the splat (or the body), so it's easily reversed if they want that villain back for a sequel.

As for the discussion upthread, I am utterly amused that anybody thinks that Simonson's epic run *wasn't* a retcon, since it tied Thor and Asgard into Norse myth, and very clearly established that these characters were the gods of Norse myth, and not just space aliens mistaken for gods, as in the original Kirby version of Asgard, all gleaming with train tubes and flying machines and tube-shaped blaster weapons and whatnot. It also retold yet *another* tale of Ragnarok, which had been resolved five years earlier with the Red Norvell version of Thor and some shenanigans by 'benevolent' Odin (who has *often* been kind of a jerk...), who tricked some mortals into dying so that his family could skate on that fate (and led to the 'endless recurring Ragnaroks' retcon). Indeed, that's yet another retcon. For most of Simonson's run, Odin wasn't nearly the manipulative and ill-tempered old goat that he'd been for decades, and has returned to being again.

Simonson's run was a *great* retcon, but it was most definitely a retcon, in that it changed what had been established before (for the better, for the most part).

Simonson did was change the way Asgard looked. That's not a retcon, that's a bit of artistic lisence.

We had already seen in Annuals and in Thor's own book from 290 - 336 that the Asgardian's were the gods of Myth. Roy Thomas had shown us the Nibelung's Saga, having Odin interact with viking warriors - summoning them to Valhalla or sending them down to Hela. Thor 300 discusses how the power of mortal worship helped power the gods. Loki used high tech machines to tap the power of Surtur's sword and to kidnap and steal power from Iceman, and even calls it 'the machinery of the gods.' The fire demons of Muspelheim can be seen using flame guns in the battle in New York.

Granted the warriors of Valhalla didn't seem to know about M-16's before visiting Earth, but that doesn't seem like much of an alteration to me because I'm not sure Harokin and company every used them before.

Simonson did a few things differently, probably most notably the Midgard Serpent, but in the evidence I wouldn't call the whole run a retcon.

[GodThor]

I like more a fantasy feel when it comes to mythology rather than sci-fi.

[MindofShadow]

Okay, let me see if I understand this... Jane Foster is dead, Mangog was fried to a crisp and took Mjolnir with him, right? Does this mean that Jarnbjorn is now Odinson's primary weapon?

Mangog is trapped in those chains that held fenris wolf being held down by Mjolnir.

Neither are dead or destroyed. Just trapped. If mjolnir is called, mangog will be released again.

So jane is dead bc she cant bring the hammer back

[JKtheMac]

So Jane is dead bc she cant bring the hammer back

No Jane is dead because her body died.

[JKtheMac]

Talking of Damnation we have Jane AND Thor the Goddess as individual souls in that book for the first time.

Dr Strange 388.jpg

Doctor Strange #388

Don't ask me why Jane is has auburn or light brown hair. I guess it is only a little lighter than Coipel/Laura Martin depicted it.

[JKtheMac]

As for the discussion upthread, I am utterly amused that anybody thinks that Simonson's epic run *wasn't* a retcon, since it tied Thor and Asgard into Norse myth, and very clearly established that these characters were the gods of Norse myth, and not just space aliens mistaken for gods, as in the original Kirby version of Asgard, all gleaming with train tubes and flying machines and tube-shaped blaster weapons and whatnot. It also retold yet *another* tale of Ragnarok, which had been resolved five years earlier with the Red Norvell version of Thor and some shenanigans by 'benevolent' Odin (who has *often* been kind of a jerk...), who tricked some mortals into dying so that his family could skate on that fate (and led to the 'endless recurring Ragnaroks' retcon). Indeed, that's yet another retcon. For most of Simonson's run, Odin wasn't nearly the manipulative and ill-tempered old goat that he'd been for decades, and has returned to being again.

Simonson's run was a *great* retcon, but it was most definitely a retcon, in that it changed what had been established before (for the better, for the most part).

It is strange. There is a kind of cultural blind-spot when it comes to changes. But Simonson was such a huge shift in outlook and underlying meaning. I guess people are happy as long as the writer hand waves enough and writes a good story. The thing that confounds me is the same people that don't see it are often the same people that scream to the rooftops that newer comics are changing things. You would imagine any fan of Simonson would be accepting of change.

I guess it partly depends on how people define retcons and reboots. I would define a retcon as anything that changes a core element of the canon or recasts it in a new light. Simonson has said in another thread that he doesn't consider what he did was a retcon, and suggested indirectly that he used ambiguity and unreliable narration to allow anything to be open to interpretation. I would include that in my definition of retcon. Such ambiguities are fine as far as things go, but when his run lasted for years and much of what he did was accepted and not contradicted for quite a while then it becomes canon by default and any ambiguities are wiped away by weight of story.

Of course there are a large number of readers that were introduced to Thor via Simonson, and so they may be reading the rest of canon with Simonson tinted glasses. Lets face it there are worse tinted glasses, they are just not glasses I would choose to wear.

[marge_23]

New preview is out for 706

https://www.newsarama.com/39598-migh...eview.html#s10

[Digifiend]

Told ya. Valhalla.

[JKtheMac]

Told ya. Valhalla.

The gates have been shown twice in visions and the letters above those gates read Valhalla, so I don't think anyone ever doubted it.

[brettc1]

Told ya. Valhalla.

If she goes in.

It might be more important to Jane that she spend eternity with her son.

[JKtheMac]

If she goes in.

It might be more important to Jane that she spend eternity with her son.

In one of the visions the doors appear to show a figure inside. It could have been somebody opening them but it seemed more likely to be the doors closing on somebody that had just passed through. In this preview. Which I havn't read only scanned the art. Either interpretations are figuratively possible, as she is indeed being greeted at the door.

It is notable the person at the door isn't a goddess. I am most interested to see if Thor the Goddess of Thunder makes a reappearance without Jane at some point. Certainly Damnation seems to hint this is possible, and the story seems to me to have been be hinting at this possibility from the start.

[Jarnsaxa]

In one of the visions the doors appear to show a figure inside. It could have been somebody opening them but it seemed more likely to be the doors closing on somebody that had just passed through. In this preview. Which I havn't read only scanned the art. Either interpretations are figuratively possible, as she is indeed being greeted at the door.

It is notable the person at the door isn't a goddess. I am most interested to see if Thor the Goddess of Thunder makes a reappearance without Jane at some point. Certainly Damnation seems to hint this is possible, and the story seems to me to have been be hinting at this possibility from the start.

Interesting, isn't Odin the one that picks Valkyrie in the legends and isn't he really short on Valkyries right now? I dont' remember any Valkyrie fighting Mangog not even Brunnhilde so they either all turned coward or there aren't a lot left. And where is Brunnhilde anyway? She was on the cover of issue #700 and hasn't been in the series at all.
201557_1150165_1005.jpg

You'd think, given the prominance shown on that cover, that she'd have played a major role in the story but she's been completely absent. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here but maybe Jane is getting another job after this all plays out? Maybe she's even going to steal Thor's other weapon? He doesn't seem to be doing anything with Jarnborn, maybe Jane is going to be an ax thief next? You know how you let your girlfriend borrow one of your favorite T-shirts then you don't have any because she's using them all as nightshirts? Maybe Jane's like that but with Thor's weapons.