The Mighty Thor Appreciation

[kilderkin]

That's a trivial issue. We know that Jane is in that scene too, in the early stories we got to hear her own thoughts as the other personality was to the fore. It doesn't stop Thor the Goddess of thunder being a separate entity. That's how gods work, they are created by the imagination of humans.

I think you have a sound point there, the gods I think are shaped by us to an extent, it suggests their personality is somewhat forged by us too

Didn't universe x suggest something like this?

[Daniel22]

I think you have a sound point there, the gods I think are shaped by us to an extent, it suggests their personality is somewhat forged by us too

Didn't universe x suggest something like this?

I'd say that the gods in the MU are entirely shaped by non-god believers. Haven't we seen examples of gods being more or less strong, or of personalities shifting, in response to the actions and attention/neglect of non-gods?

[kilderkin]

I'd say that the gods in the MU are entirely shaped by non-god believers. Haven't we seen examples of gods being more or less strong, or of personalities shifting, in response to the actions and attention/neglect of non-gods?

Iirc this does seem to be indicated at times

Certainly there's been suggestion at least some gods have heard prayers, would that affect the god even subtly

also as I recall when emma frost mind scanned thors, in a v x, she found his mind like a storm, so I think they are much more than just super aliens who have been worshipped

which I think should be the case if they are to have a richer mythos, otherwise they may as well just be aliens

and there's enough of them I feel

[Daniel22]

Iirc this does seem to be indicated at times

Certainly there's been suggestion at least some gods have heard prayers, would that affect the god even subtly

also as I recall when emma frost mind scanned thors, in a v x, she found his mind like a storm, so I think they are much more than just super aliens who have been worshipped

which I think should be the case if they are to have a richer mythos, otherwise they may as well just be aliens

and there's enough of them I feel

Oh I totally agree. I really prefer the gods in comics to be "real" Gods, to be deities who are connected to and have a relationship with mortals. It's just so much more interesting that way as opposed to the current trend, where they are, as you said, basically just an alien race.

Marvel had a trend of getting away from even using the "god" label a while back. I know they took Hercules off the board in favor of Cho, and and brought the Asgardians to Earth, and I know there were other "de-godding" incidents that I wish I could remember but cannot.

[brettc1]

I'd say that the gods in the MU are entirely shaped by non-god believers. Haven't we seen examples of gods being more or less strong, or of personalities shifting, in response to the actions and attention/neglect of non-gods?

Personalities shift in comic books more with the change of writer than the change of worshippers.

Roy Thomas stated the idea of the gods being sustained by mortal worship but as this thread has amply demonstrated, even he had bad ideas. And really it is not sustainable reasonably because the Asgardians were not actively worshipped for centuries; yet Odin is among the most powerful of the sky-fathers, capable of even stalemating Galactus.

Plus Old King Thor lives for centuries more with no humans around, if I recall. And also fights Galactus.

Bringing it back to The Might Thor, it's Jane. That is the whole point of the character - what Jane could do with the power of Thor. It's when writers get weird ideas about creating a character who is some kind of cosmic clone or doppleganger created by blah blah blah that stories get silly and the actual uniqueness of characters is devalued.

[Daniel22]

Personalities shift in comic books more with the change of writer than the change of worshippers.

Roy Thomas stated the idea of the gods being sustained by mortal worship but as this thread has amply demonstrated, even he had bad ideas. And really it is not sustainable reasonably because the Asgardians were not actively worshipped for centuries; yet Odin is among the most powerful of the sky-fathers, capable of even stalemating Galactus.

Plus Old King Thor lives for centuries more with no humans around, if I recall. And also fights Galactus.

Bringing it back to The Might Thor, it's Jane. That is the whole point of the character - what Jane could do with the power of Thor. It's when writers get weird ideas about creating a character who is some kind of cosmic clone or doppleganger created by blah blah blah that stories get silly and the actual uniqueness of characters is devalued.

Hmm good point about Old King Thor and Odin... Maybe it's a residual power? They are more powerful than the lesser known and worshiped Asgardians in general, right? So maybe they get "charged up" from their worship and keep that power. Maybe the power, once established, won't sink below a certain level?

[brettc1]

Hmm good point about Old King Thor and Odin... Maybe it's a residual power? They are more powerful than the lesser known and worshiped Asgardians in general, right? So maybe they get "charged up" from their worship and keep that power. Maybe the power, once established, won't sink below a certain level?

OR - just forget all that. Nobody actually worships Odin any more except his own people, and not even many of them with the way Aaron has written the story.

All these convoluted ideas came out of a time when Marvel wanted to have its cake and eat it too - have pantheons of gods and not tread on any religious toes. That's my belief, anyway. Simonson pretty much did away with that idea when he showed the adventures of young Odin and his brothers.

Explaining where the gods came from is like putting midiclorians in Star Wars. It serves no useful purpose in the story and actually diminishes the magic. It's better to push it aside and get on the with story.

[brettc1]

That's a trivial issue. We know that Jane is in that scene too, in the early stories we got to hear her own thoughts as the other personality was to the fore. It doesn't stop Thor the Goddess of thunder being a separate entity. That's how gods work, they are created by the imagination of humans.

There is no "too." There's just Jane.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Jane's thought balloons have always been in normal font, not the Asgardian font they use when she talks as Thor. That's not indicative of them being two people at all.

[Digifiend]

Don't post about today's issue without spoiler tags, it wasn't as predictable as we thought. Don't click this if you haven't read it!
spoilers:

Jane ISN'T dead. I guess she was too popular to allow to die.

end of spoilers

[Biclopcicle]

That's a trivial issue. We know that Jane is in that scene too, in the early stories we got to hear her own thoughts as the other personality was to the fore. It doesn't stop Thor the Goddess of thunder being a separate entity. That's how gods work, they are created by the imagination of humans.

I know that is how Guenwald (I think that's the author) put it down in the Thor annual. But how can the gods be created by humans when clearly we have Odin around at 1,000,000 years ago. Language had not developed yet, Homo Sapiens did not yet exist (though I'm not sure what species of hominid Iron Fist and Black Panther represent), so there's no way they could've imagined Odin- he is a real entity independent of any mortal construct

[Fokken]

Don't post about today's issue without spoiler tags, it wasn't as predictable as we thought. Don't click this if you haven't read it!
spoilers:

Jane ISN'T dead. I guess she was too popular to allow to die.

end of spoilers

Splain to me.

[Biclopcicle]

Don't post about today's issue without spoiler tags, it wasn't as predictable as we thought. Don't click this if you haven't read it!
spoilers:

Jane ISN'T dead. I guess she was too popular to allow to die.

end of spoilers

Yeah I have to say I wasn't too thrilled with the resolution to the story. But I will reserve judgement on how they handled Odinson for the next issue.

[Digifiend]

Splain to me.

spoilers:

Odin and Odinson use the Mother Storm to bring her back - but stop short of curing the cancer. She'll now get that treatment she needs and return healthy.

end of spoilers

[Daniel22]

OR - just forget all that. Nobody actually worships Odin any more except his own people, and not even many of them with the way Aaron has written the story.

All these convoluted ideas came out of a time when Marvel wanted to have its cake and eat it too - have pantheons of gods and not tread on any religious toes. That's my belief, anyway. Simonson pretty much did away with that idea when he showed the adventures of young Odin and his brothers.

Explaining where the gods came from is like putting midiclorians in Star Wars. It serves no useful purpose in the story and actually diminishes the magic. It's better to push it aside and get on the with story.

Do Asgardians worship each other, in the way humans worship gods? I thought, and I could be wrong, that all Asgardians are gods. I guess gods could worship one another, but that would be odd to me. I always took Odin to be more as a monarch to the Asgardians as opposed to a person they worship like a god.

I think it's a worthwhile point to distinguish if gods come from mortals or exist entirely independently. The answer to that defines the gods on a fundamental level. To me having the gods be connected to mortals, or being a product of mortals, is a dynamic that is much richer than the other way, in which they are, as has been noted, basically just another group of aliens.