Hyperion Appreciation

[XPac]

while we're speculating, maybe fewer people would have died had the Iluminati not withheld the existence of the Incursions.



it requires Reed Richards and the Molecule Man. not sure what this has to do with the others giving Namor a pass for murdering the Wakandans, though. when you use possession as a defense, the burden of proof is on you. all I have to do, on my end, is to post Namor screaming at the top of his lungs that he'd gleefully kill them again; post-Phoenix. just face it, Namor had it coming. the Atlanteans are another issue. but you're not even conceding that he was guilty.



which gives them even more of a motive to attack their new earth's problems with zero tolerance. it's like when Steve Rogers allowed Wolverine to be an Avenger because he would be willing to do things that his boyscout @## wouldn't. the Squadron simply recruited more Wolverines.



the dissolution of the team was not organic. they were forced apart because the writer needed them to be. it really makes no sense for Blur to suddenly develop into a Jim Hammond fanboy and jump ship. given her rage, it made no sense for Spectrum to suddenly sympathize with the Inhumans; given that Black Bolt's action was an act of a guilty person. Hyperion turning on Nighthawk was illogical given that it was Marc who took the killshot. he wasn't in a position to judge. and I'm not even sure why they were in the past to begin with. they could have just teamed up to take down evil-Zarda.



you state it as fact. I disagree. and I cited the news reports. they accomplished plenty. I submit that Robinson didn't really like the characters. if he had, he would have focused on what they accomplished and used the stuff with Namor to explore morality of the group. instead, killing Namor was a footnote. and they immediately had them chucked into weird world. why sabotage the team upfront? the more interesting story was Nighthawk's discovery of the Myriad. that was a mission that the team could have focused on; as a unit. basically, they Diggle-Bolted everything. it's not hard to think up stories involving the Squadron. there are parts of the marvel universe that we never see. they could have had them proactively taking out Islamic terrorists or killing members of Hydra who had infiltrated government. he chose not to for some reason.



I disagree entirely. I think the Uncanny Avengers are a pretty piss poor team, though.



an unforced error on Marvel's part, imo. they've been making a lot of them. they could have used Ultimate Nick Fury. instead they decided to blatantly introduce a character who couldn't fill his shoes. they could have promoted Dwayne Taylor. instead, they made him the butt of a reality tv show, killed him, replaced him with his milli vanilli impersonating brother, and changed that lesser character into Dwayne. there was nothing broken about Nighthawk. there was nothing broken about Nightshade. putting Nightshade into Nighthawk's costume doesn't help either character. if people hated Nighthawk, Tilda was twice as murderous and w/o even the pretense of a mission. they bothered to reintroduce depowered Zarda as a one woman army easily infiltrating shield, forming alliances with Daimon Hellstrom, and deep sea diving to locate the Squadron (when no one else could). then they don't do anything with her. a lot of stupid wasteful moves being made. Nighthawk being killed off isn't evidence of the character failing. it's Marvel failing on a creative level.

Namor arguably does deserve what happened from the Squadrons perspective... Namor certainly wasn't possessed when he destroyed the Great Societys earth. Course, you can justify his actions by arguing he prevented 2 universes from being destroyed... but Spectrum still has every right to be mad. But the Squadron didn't just go after Namor... they destroyed Atlantis. And that ended up having consequences (just as Namors actions had consequences... Atlantis ended up being destroyed twice so he paid a price too).

As far as the teams dissolution not being organic... it's not exactly a total surprise. They weren't exactly friends, and most of them were second guessing the direction they were going for a good portion of the books run.

And the Myriad is exactly why I would consider them a pretty sucky team. They make this discovery... then basically ignore it and do nothing about it. That sums up this team pretty well.

[Michael Watkins]

Namor arguably does deserve what happened from the Squadrons perspective... Namor certainly wasn't possessed when he destroyed the Great Societys earth. Course, you can justify his actions by arguing he prevented 2 universes from being destroyed... but Spectrum still has every right to be mad. But the Squadron didn't just go after Namor... they destroyed Atlantis. And that ended up having consequences (just as Namors actions had consequences... Atlantis ended up being destroyed twice so he paid a price too).

As far as the teams dissolution not being organic... it's not exactly a total surprise. They weren't exactly friends, and most of them were second guessing the direction they were going for a good portion of the books run.

And the Myriad is exactly why I would consider them a pretty sucky team. They make this discovery... then basically ignore it and do nothing about it. That sums up this team pretty well.

The fact that Namor is alive and Zarda isn't in power is testament that they were not a sucky team; to use your own logic. You just glossed over Ulysses precognitive abilities being used to preempt the Squadron. Take them out of the equation and Zarda wins. Spectrum helped fight off the Myriad when they attacked the Inhumans.

[XPac]

The fact that Namor is alive and Zarda isn't in power is testament that they were not a sucky team; to use your own logic. You just glossed over Ulysses precognitive abilities being used to preempt the Squadron. Take them out of the equation and Zarda wins. Spectrum helped fight off the Myriad when they attacked the Inhumans.

I think the fact that the Myriads till exists while the Sqiadron doesn't pretty much shows how effectively they handled that.

Really, if you read the last issue of the book the Squadron themselves basically admit aside from weird world they basically didn't do anything. If anything the bulk of the team were basically admitting they regretted the things they did on the team. At the end of the day it matters less what you or I think than what the Sqadrn ultimately thought of itself.

[CentralPower]

Hickman's Hyperion had so much damn potential....

I jumped in on this thread because for a moment (a brief and shining moment), I thought there was going to be a relaunch. I should have known better.

Doesn't look like the Squadron Supreme will be getting back together anytime soon so yeah... I suppose he could return to the Avengers.

But they probably would need a second Avengers title, because the core team seems pretty locked up at the moment.

Never mind that the Sentry is getting a push.

Admittedly, the Sentry is a wholly different riff on the Superman type character than Hyperion. But, Marvel is unlikely to run both Hyperion and the Sentry at the same time.

Most Hyperions, even the good ones, seem to have a tendency to go a bit too far. The Gruenwald version ended up taking over the world, and the JMS version in the future seems to as well. Hickman seems to be back tracking after drinking Nightharks Kool Aid, so we'll see.

Hickman's Hyperion was also raised by an absolute utilitarian, which lends itself to communist style central planning. But, he is also shown to be aware of his potential to cause harm. There was a decimal-numbered issue of Hickman's run (actually written by Ewing) that showed Hyperion catching himself if his thoughts became too aggressive of imperious.

Yeah is a good character, good guy with a desire to really get to understand the common people. Too bad his solo was horribly written and pretty much all Squadron supreme characters were written in unpleasant annoying way in that run. Hyperion was not even the worst. Whizzer was probably the worst one.

The solo series was truncated. It was supposed to be Hyperion getting his mojo back.

Whizzer was the best thing about Robinson's "Squadron Supreme" series. (He was intentionally written as a retro-80s monologue-spouting naval-gazer.)

But like I said, they ended up being just one hot mess. Aside from the Weird World Stuff, their biggest accomplishment was basically just undoing their screw up at the start and realizing what a bad idea all of this ended up being.

It is not fair to complain about the team being dysfunctional. That was the point. (In other words, the more screwed up they were, the better.) Now, the poorly structured series on the other hand....yeah, that was bad.

Robinson is a good writer. He has proven that multiple times over the years. (And, being mean to one's obscure favorites is no great sin.) But, yeah, the "Squadron Supreme" series fell apart. It may not have been entirely Robinson's fault.

But, mid-way through the second arc, the series lost its focus. Then, the third arc was brought to an abrupt end (complete with the main enemies for the series being defeated off-page during the last issue....but SHIELD).

I love the Squadron. But, that series went off the tracks pretty quickly.

And as far as the MU heroes looking after the people they represent... they're still alive right now (which is more than we can say about any of the Squadrons earths).

Hey, wait....okay. Fair enough. But, ouch. I mean, seriously. Ouch.

Namor arguably does deserve what happened from the Squadrons perspective... Namor certainly wasn't possessed when he destroyed the Great Societys earth. Course, you can justify his actions by arguing he prevented 2 universes from being destroyed... but Spectrum still has every right to be mad. But the Squadron didn't just go after Namor... they destroyed Atlantis.

The morality of how to handle two universes colliding has been argued in other threads. Regardless of what choice one thinks is best, I think was can all agree that an individual would be responsible for that choice. Thus, Namor got his medicine.

As for Atlantis...ah screw them. How many times have they gone heel and attacked the surface world?

[Michael Watkins]

I think the fact that the Myriads till exists while the Sqiadron doesn't pretty much shows how effectively they handled that.

Really, if you read the last issue of the book the Squadron themselves basically admit aside from weird world they basically didn't do anything. If anything the bulk of the team were basically admitting they regretted the things they did on the team. At the end of the day it matters less what you or I think than what the Sqadrn ultimately thought of itself.

does it? If asked, Peter Parker might say that he hasn't done enough. I think I'll focus on what was in print.

[Michael Watkins]

[Michael Watkins]

[Michael Watkins]

[XPac]

does it? If asked, Peter Parker might say that he hasn't done enough. I think I'll focus on what was in print.

And what is in print is a team admitting they didn't do anything, regretting what they did, and abandoning the team entirely. If Peter had quit being a hero after a year people would probably be saying he didn't do that good a job too.

[Michael Watkins]

And what is in print is a team admitting they didn't do anything, regretting what they did, and abandoning the team entirely. If Peter had quit being a hero after a year people would probably be saying he didn't do that good a job too.

none of them quit being heroes. Blur joined SHIELD. Nighthawk died because he continued on as a vigilante. Hyperion might have took up a day job. but you can't really think that he'd turn a blind eye to someone in danger. Spectrum is, presumably, with the Inhumans. and I will reiterate that it's what is in print that important. you're talking about an emotional reaction from a few characters. you're not showing me their actual resume. that's why I posted those panels. Nighthawk talks about their early actions being anonymous. we saw very little of their actions prior to attacking Namor. but they had been active.

[XPac]

none of them quit being heroes. Blur joined SHIELD. Nighthawk died because he continued on as a vigilante. Hyperion might have took up a day job. but you can't really think that he'd turn a blind eye to someone in danger. Spectrum is, presumably, with the Inhumans. and I will reiterate that it's what is in print that important. you're talking about an emotional reaction from a few characters. you're not showing me their actual resume. that's why I posted those panels. Nighthawk talks about their early actions being anonymous. we saw very little of their actions prior to attacking Namor. but they had been active.

I didn't say they were necessarily bad heroes individually (though none of them really have a whole lot to brag about either), just that as a team the kinda sucked, and they pretty much admitted it in the end.

If they can accomplish more apart than together, more power to them.

[Jovos2099]

i would have liked it if the squadron would bult a city like http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Squadron_City like the "main" hyperion probably had in his universe too.

[Jovos2099]

they could have offered to allow normal humans mutants and all others to come and live under their protection.

[XPac]

i would have liked it if the squadron would bult a city like http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Squadron_City like the "main" hyperion probably had in his universe too.

Squadron City sounds kinda fun. Though if Hyperion decided to declare him king of it, they probably will have to nuke the place.

[Michael Watkins]

Squadron City sounds kinda fun. Though if Hyperion decided to declare him king of it, they probably will have to nuke the place.

he could have just taken Warrior Woman's place and taken over the Myriad. she was using a magic stone from Weird World that acted a lot like the Utopia method from Marc's homeworld. then he could have incorporated the zebra people.