How Are They Not Purely a Supervillain?

[t hedge coke]

Happens to all of us. There is a character you see purely as a supervillain, but who has not just fans but supporters who say the character is "really right about a lot of things," or feel they're justified in their actions, etc. They see a lion, a genius, a passionate freedom fighter, and you see a genocidal nut or a jacked up mugger in a Rhino suit.

So, who is for you? Whose "____ is right" supporters boggle your mind the most?

[ed2962]

Magneto.


Maybe Eddie Brock Venom

[dancj]

Donald Trump

[batnbreakfast]

Magneto

My 1st thought as well.
Punisher
Lex Luthor

The trademark of a great villain is when he's not totally wrong/evil but you can relate to his political views to a certain degree. Villains who are in it for the money/power or are always foaming at their mouths... not so great villains.

[jeanvaljean]

Mystique. .......

[Shawn Hopkins]

Doctor Doom. Seriously, his heroism is in his mind only.

[MindofShadow]

Doctor Doom. Seriously, his heroism is in his mind only.

this x10000

[Iron Maiden]

Doctor Doom. Seriously, his heroism is in his mind only.

I don't think you can say that with total certainty.

This could almost be the topic of Brian Cronin's "Abandoned and Forsaken" columns but even while Stan Lee was still writing and editing there was a shift that started to take place in how Doom was portrayed, starting with Doom's first solo story in MSH #20. The arc with the Overmind in Fantastic Four was one of the last that Stan scripted/plotted with Archie Goodwin after Kirby leaves for DC. Sue sort of shames him into leading the FF against the Overmind when Reed comes under his thrall. When it came down for a showdown, Doom was left to fight off the Overmind alone and it's a surprisingly heroic stand. This is also the era when Doom got his own solo in Astonishing Tales, where we also get Gerry Conway's story that introduces the annual ritual where Doom fights for the redemption of his mother's soul. To be sure, Doom does go back to being a straight up villain many times since but then you will also get stories like the follow up to Conway's story in Roger Stern's GN Doctor Strange/Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment.







Fast forward to present times and we have a sort of reborn Doom who says he's changed and is working alongside a reluctant and doubting Tony Stark. With Secret Wars, Hickman gave him a shot at redemption that Bendis has followed upon in Invincible Iron Man. It remains to be seen if this will be a permanent shift. And right now everyone in the MU owes him for preventing the Beyonder's plan from being successful.

[MindofShadow]

And right now everyone in the MU owes him for preventing the Beyonder's plan from being successful.

That sounds awesome...

until you realize he made himself God, ruled with an iron fist, and the place was basically a hell whole (and cucked Reed's family).

[Iron Maiden]

That sounds awesome...

until you realize he made himself God, ruled with an iron fist, and the place was basically a hell whole (and cucked Reed's family).

You do know that the family he had was not Reed's family. It was all explained in issue#6 and Tom B has answered this question on his tumblr Q&A. That Sue was from another universe. That Fantastic Four consisted of her father Dr. Franklin Storm as the leader.

As for it being a hell hole, Stephen Strange was right there for the entire 8 years assisting with it as the Sheriff. He could not bring himself to do what Doom did and gave over the power to him. They felt it their duty to save things because as Strange says it was all precious since that was all that remained. Probably the only horrible place was the Zombieverse. Every other kingdom had their own barons to manage things. I didn't see anything horrible about the kingdom managed by the Braddocks or Utopia, where A-Force resided.

At the end, Doom says to Reed he offered them salvation. He saved what was left. Reed is doing something different by creating things anew. Reed also prevented his family from dying during the last incursion and that's probably why you are confused.

[MindofShadow]

You do know that the family he had was not Reed's family. It was all explained in issue#6 and Tom B has answered this question on his tumblr Q&A. That Sue was from another universe. That Fantastic Four consisted of her father Dr. Franklin Storm as the leader.

As for it being a hell hole, Stephen Strange was right there for the entire 8 years assisting with it as the Sheriff. He could not bring himself to do what Doom did and gave over the power to him. They felt it their duty to save things because as Strange says it was all precious since that was all that remained. Probably the only horrible place was the Zombieverse. Every other kingdom had their own barons to manage things. I didn't see anything horrible about the kingdom managed by the Braddocks or Utopia, where A-Force resided.

At the end, Doom says to Reed he offered them salvation. He saved what was left. Reed is doing something different by creating things anew. Reed also prevented his family from dying during the last incursion and that's probably why you are confused.

I am not confused at all.

I am saying it is still

Weird
As
F

I've read the same tumblr/stuff you have.

I just find it incredibly weird. Doom's "cool factor" has made it where his fans justify EVERYTHING he does. You dn't find it horrible that a disagreement between baron's lead to a fight that lead to someone being thrown into zombie land? Thats just... normal? ok? cool even?

Oh and the minute Strange did disagree with doom, he got disintegrated

[Iron Maiden]

I am not confused at all.

I am saying it is still

Weird
As
F

I've read the same tumblr/stuff you have.

Yeah, it was weird but in the mosaic page Doom tells Reed that "they chose me " and concedes that it was "in the absence of you". But it wasn't like he was married to Reed's Sue like you posted. It was said at the very beginning that Sue and the other died when their raft split in two.

I just find it incredibly weird. Doom's "cool factor" has made it where his fans justify EVERYTHING he does. You dn't find it horrible that a disagreement between baron's lead to a fight that lead to someone being thrown into zombie land? Thats just... normal? ok? cool even?

Yeah, it kind of was they die but then live again.....and again Stephen goes along with this also. He was also advocating for greater punishment for Baron Sinister.

They both were in a sort of bunker mentality is what I was seeing. They allude to the terrible early years when things were very chaotic. You had all of these worlds thrust together and there was constant conflict with the Hulks going on rages or the zombies attacking things. They worked out a system that worked for the circumstances they found themselves in. They couldn't pick and choose what worlds were left and chose to give them all a chance.

Oh and the minute Strange did disagree with doom, he got disintegrated

Yeah, that part was not good obviously. He knew Strange was going to go against him. But it's not like the other side was going to accept Doom anyway. Scott tried to kill him right off the bat and that didn't help things. Thanos took a shot at him later on.

[dancj]

Do Doctor Doom and Lex Luthor have supporters?

(I am assuming that the OP was talking about real life supporters rather than fictional ones)

[Carabas]

I don't think you can say that with total certainty.

This could almost be the topic of Brian Cronin's "Abandoned and Forsaken" columns but even while Stan Lee was still writing and editing there was a shift that started to take place in how Doom was portrayed, starting with Doom's first solo story in MSH #20. The arc with the Overmind in Fantastic Four was one of the last that Stan scripted/plotted with Archie Goodwin after Kirby leaves for DC. Sue sort of shames him into leading the FF against the Overmind when Reed comes under his thrall. When it came down for a showdown, Doom was left to fight off the Overmind alone and it's a surprisingly heroic stand. This is also the era when Doom got his own solo in Astonishing Tales, where we also get Gerry Conway's story that introduces the annual ritual where Doom fights for the redemption of his mother's soul. To be sure, Doom does go back to being a straight up villain many times since but then you will also get stories like the follow up to Conway's story in Roger Stern's GN Doctor Strange/Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment.







Fast forward to present times and we have a sort of reborn Doom who says he's changed and is working alongside a reluctant and doubting Tony Stark. With Secret Wars, Hickman gave him a shot at redemption that Bendis has followed upon in Invincible Iron Man. It remains to be seen if this will be a permanent shift. And right now everyone in the MU owes him for preventing the Beyonder's plan from being successful.

You do not get brownie points for 'heroically' helping to stop some cosmic monstrosity from destroying the place you live on.

[CliffHanger2]

Yeah I always think Magneto.