How Are They Not Purely a Supervillain?

[AbnormallyNormal]

My mind is much more "boggled" by folks who see clear and pure super villians (or heroes) where I see shades of grey. Although my mind is not actually boggled, I understand why folks are that way. It's just annoying though especially when they are condescending about their opinion

[t hedge coke]

My mind is much more "boggled" by folks who see clear and pure super villians (or heroes) where I see shades of grey. Although my mind is not actually boggled, I understand why folks are that way. It's just annoying though especially when they are condescending about their opinion

Why would "shades of grey" preclude someone being "purely a supervillain"? The worst people in the world, and generally even in fiction, have something they also think kindly on or enjoy. Doesn't stop them from being clearly the (super)villain of a story or narrative. Nor does "did not kick a puppy one time" or "was nice to this one girl, because she's pretty" make a mass murderer or world-conquering megalomaniacal despot not a bad person.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Why would "shades of grey" preclude someone being "purely a supervillain"? The worst people in the world, and generally even in fiction, have something they also think kindly on or enjoy. Doesn't stop them from being clearly the (super)villain of a story or narrative. Nor does "did not kick a puppy one time" or "was nice to this one girl, because she's pretty" make a mass murderer or world-conquering megalomaniacal despot not a bad person.

Sure but then we have people saying Magneto

I mean FFS

Did people stop reading X-Men in 1968 or something?

Ridiculous

[ed2962]

If Magneto was a real person, he'd be a terrorist. He has what he thinks is a noble cause ( and that cause is dubious), but he has no problem killing people who get in his way. Sure, he's made several turns as a good guy, but they never stick. He's killed hundreds of people and many of them innocent.

Thing is, he works best as a bad guy that you can understand. Trying to make him an anti-hero messes him up.

[t hedge coke]

Sure but then we have people saying Magneto

I mean FFS

Did people stop reading X-Men in 1968 or something?

Ridiculous

Because he didn't kill at least hundreds of people in the 90s?

Or, again, in the 00s before Marvel retconned it?

Or, hasn't had a history of marching his little armies into peaceful nations in South America and the Savage Land and conquering, enslaving, and experimenting on the people?

Of kidnapping, assault, murder, torture, theft, and general criminal behavior?

Magneto is a horrible person. Being nice to Rogue one time or hurting another also bad person doesn't make him not a terrible criminal bastard. Nor, does it make him 'The Malcolm X of Mutants" or "The Golda Meir..." It might make him The Hitler of Mutants, a man who, on occasion, was also kind to one or two people and may have been in opposition to some other bad person. But, that's about as far as that goes.

All the good he's ever accomplished was a) subjectively good and b) accomplished through horrible, callous force. Genosha? Genosha was already rebuilding when he by force and unbidden held the entire world hostage to be awarded it as his personal playground.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Because he didn't kill at least hundreds of people in the 90s?

Or, again, in the 00s before Marvel retconned it?

Or, hasn't had a history of marching his little armies into peaceful nations in South America and the Savage Land and conquering, enslaving, and experimenting on the people?

Of kidnapping, assault, murder, torture, theft, and general criminal behavior?

Magneto is a horrible person. Being nice to Rogue one time or hurting another also bad person doesn't make him not a terrible criminal bastard. Nor, does it make him 'The Malcolm X of Mutants" or "The Golda Meir..." It might make him The Hitler of Mutants, a man who, on occasion, was also kind to one or two people and may have been in opposition to some other bad person. But, that's about as far as that goes.

All the good he's ever accomplished was a) subjectively good and b) accomplished through horrible, callous force. Genosha? Genosha was already rebuilding when he by force and unbidden held the entire world hostage to be awarded it as his personal playground.

Bad writers , read my sig

Magneto is currently right now the leader of an X-Men team

he is not a supervillian

He stopped being one in 1983ish... just saying

using him as a blatantly pure example of a supervillian is absolutely preposterous

[t hedge coke]

Doom, being Doomy



It's okeh, though, because he has his own personal sense of honor.

He stopped being one in 1983ish... just saying

using him as a blatantly pure example of a supervillian is absolutely preposterous

And, for the record, Claremont co-wrote Alan Davis storyline just before Claremont's big return where Magneto was quite villainous, aside from, y'know, writing by himself that whole storyline just before he left the X-Men where Magneto was a giant supervillain. So, even if we're pretending Claremont is the only writer who matters, he's written Magneto as a flat out villain probably more times than he ever wrote him as anything else.

[Agent Z]

Azula

Lex Luthor

Ozai

Magneto.


Maybe Eddie Brock Venom

I know about the Magneto thing, but this is the first time I've heard of people seeing Eddie as not purely a villain. In fact, his "Lethal Protector" phase seems to be heavily derided from what I've heard.

[Chris Lang]

The regular Sabretooth (not the Exiles Sabretooth, Age of Apocalypse Sabretooth, or any other variants). There was an attempt to turn him into an anti-hero in the 90's, and it just didn't work. He's just too much of a vicious killer for that to work.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Bad writers , read my sig

Magneto is currently right now the leader of an X-Men team

he is not a supervillian

He stopped being one in 1983ish... just saying

using him as a blatantly pure example of a supervillian is absolutely preposterous

Why? He's an avowed racist who's murdered thousands. His background grants him somewhat believable motivation for his actions, but it doesn't excuse him in the least. To say a victim could never victimize, is to enable.

[MyriVerse]

Doctor Doom. Seriously, his heroism is in his mind only.

That's my estimation of him as well. I firmly believe the stories of him roaming around the Latverian countryside, raping fair underage maidens.

But I support Our Lord Magneto. So, what do I know.

[GOLGO 13]

Doom, being Doomy



It's okeh, though, because he has his own personal sense of honor.



And, for the record, Claremont co-wrote Alan Davis storyline just before Claremont's big return where Magneto was quite villainous, aside from, y'know, writing by himself that whole storyline just before he left the X-Men where Magneto was a giant supervillain. So, even if we're pretending Claremont is the only writer who matters, he's written Magneto as a flat out villain probably more times than he ever wrote him as anything else.

The sight of DOOM walking some Dobermans through the city is horrible but it is funny. But the sight of "rapey DOOM" is hilarious. Claremont wrote this? <laughing & laughing>

[MyriVerse]

The sight of DOOM walking some Dobermans through the city is horrible but it is funny. But the sight of "rapey DOOM" is hilarious. Claremont wrote this? <laughing & laughing>

No. Englehart wrote that.

[ouroboros]

I can behind villains who have been corrupted because they got shat on by people in power, and so decided that they ought to take over things themselves, like Doom and Magneto.

I find it harder to understand the popularity of contract killers like Deathstroke. Even if the writer makes up some BS about how the character only kills the unrighteous-- which is probably even further from consensual reality than the idea of "the noble dictator"-- I don't get the appeal of assassin-types as protagonists, with rare artful exceptions. I probably read 20-30 junk copies of the DEATHSTROKE title and I found them all pretty forgettable. He seemed like an A-hole in TITANS and never got beyond that in later appearances, IMO.

I can get the appeal of the commando thing, but assassin and commando don't generally mix well in my book.

Deadpool may well have killed as many people as Deathstroke, but the reader's supposed to find Deadpool ludicrous to some extent, not as a figure to be admired as a "Zen assassin."

I

[ed2962]

Azula

Lex Luthor

Ozai




I know about the Magneto thing, but this is the first time I've heard of people seeing Eddie as not purely a villain. In fact, his "Lethal Protector" phase seems to be heavily derided from what I've heard.

But wasn't that the point of that phase, to try to make Brock an "anti-hero"? It just didn't make any sense to me...