Marvel LGBT Discussion

[Tiamatty]

Lesbian subtext aside, I really, really love Jubilee and Laura as a team. They need to team up again. As often as possible.

Julie would make a great Avenger. She had one of my favourite moments in Avengers Academy: Her reaction to being stabbed is, "And now I have a knife." That is just such a badass moment and line. Also, she and Karolina do make a pretty adorable couple.

Like vaf, I'm sceptical of taking well-established characters with long histories of heterosexual relationships and outing them. I know that, as far as the Internet is concerned, pretty much every single character is secretly gay. But the risk with outing a character with a lot of history is that it comes across as a stunt, and that might just turn people off it. Even people who actually do want more LGBT representation in comics may just roll their eyes at it.

It would probably be better to go with characters who have already been very strongly hinted as being LGBT. The subtext between Storm and Yukio was always blatant, so at this point, revealing her to be pansexual wouldn't actually be a surprise to anyone, it would simply be confirming something that everyone already knows. Same with Mystique - who it's long past time was actually shown to be bisexual, rather than just "bisexual but only ever sleeps or flirts with men, aside from one woman who died 25 years ago." (Also, let's have a mini about Mystique and Destiny when they were young. Let's see them meet and fall in love and raise some hell.) Same with Hercules, too.

There are major characters who can be outed easily, without it actually being a twist. I'm not really sure that applies to Iceman. Outing him would end up feeling like a big twist, a surprising reveal that the average reader wouldn't have predicted.

Besides, why would you want Iceman to be gay? The guy's boring. He has all the personality of drywall. There are way more interesting characters who could be gay.

[legion_quest]

Besides, why would you want Iceman to be gay? The guy's boring. He has all the personality of drywall. There are way more interesting characters who could be gay.

I agree. Turn Warren gay instead

[BroHomo]

I agree. Turn Warren gay instead

I would rather we have someone of color instead of Marvel's rainbow coalition consisting of all white guys and gals.

I think turning Storm into a pansexual would further her into an African cliche'. Despite attending a seminar this semester where one of my friends did his thesis on his own Pansexuality I am still not sure what it means, or how it differs from being Bisexual, add that fact to the one I mentioned above I just don't see how Storm's pansexuality would add anything but fanboyish giggles and pictures to her story.

[legion_quest]

I would rather we have someone of color instead of Marvel's rainbow coalition consisting of all white guys and gals.

I think turning Storm into a pansexual would further her into an African cliche'. Despite attending a seminar this semester where one of my friends did his thesis on his own Pansexuality I am still not sure what it means, or how it differs from being Bisexual, add that fact to the one I mentioned above I just don't see how Storm's pansexuality would add anything but fanboyish giggles and pictures to her story.

Maybe Patriot could come back and be gay. He never really had issues with Kate liking Tommy more than him, his issue was Tommy like Kate more than him!

I'm only kidding of course, but it would be a fun storyline

[BroHomo]

Maybe Patriot could come back and be gay. He never really had issues with Kate liking Tommy more than him, his issue was Tommy like Kate more than him!

I'm only kidding of course, but it would be a fun storyline

That would be cool, and it would add a definite gay dude to the whole Captain America and his ilk. Only problem Boring as hell Prodigy stole his place in the YA, and possibly his storyline. Except Patriot wouldn't need the crutch of his powers making him take an interest in guys.

[Tiamatty]

I agree. Turn Warren gay instead

Actually, his death and rebirth means that would be easy to do. He's not the person he used to be, so who's to say he's still straight?

I would rather we have someone of color instead of Marvel's rainbow coalition consisting of all white guys and gals.

I think turning Storm into a pansexual would further her into an African cliche'. Despite attending a seminar this semester where one of my friends did his thesis on his own Pansexuality I am still not sure what it means, or how it differs from being Bisexual, add that fact to the one I mentioned above I just don't see how Storm's pansexuality would add anything but fanboyish giggles and pictures to her story.

Pansexuals basically don't care about gender at all, in terms of sexual and romantic partners. Bisexuals are attracted to both genders. Pansexuals are attracted to anyone, no matter how they define their gender. And I don't think it would really add "fanboyish giggles" - everyone already thinks she's bi anyway. So let her date a woman. And let her date an alien who doesn't conform to any human gender. Make it clear that it's people she's attracted to, and their gender is irrelevant to her.

[Tiamatty]

That would be cool, and it would add a definite gay dude to the whole Captain America and his ilk. Only problem Boring as hell Prodigy stole his place in the YA, and possibly his storyline. Except Patriot wouldn't need the crutch of his powers making him take an interest in guys.

Yeah, that's bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. It is a willful misreading of the scene. As explained in the other thread - repeatedly - his powers essentially let him experience what it's like to be with a guy, and he found that it worked for him. It was a metaphor for teens discovering their sexuality through experimenting. The whole run was a metaphor for being 18 done through the lens of superheroics, and Prodigy getting experience through his powers rather than through direct experience fit into that.

This is not complicated. It's really not.

[legion_quest]

Actually, his death and rebirth means that would be easy to do. He's not the person he used to be, so who's to say he's still straight?

Pretty much exactly what I was going for. Plus, teen Warren meeting resurrected gay future Warren could be a really fun read

[BushidoBlade2]

Also clarification, Julie Power is NOT a lesbian, she's bisexual. I noticed some people here talking like she was.

What does it matter? Bisexual is just another way of saying you're gay. Just like "Lesbian" is another label for a gay woman. They're all under the same umbrella so there's no reason to get feisty like so many do when it comes to these labels.

Pansexuals basically don't care about gender at all, in terms of sexual and romantic partners. Bisexuals are attracted to both genders. Pansexuals are attracted to anyone, no matter how they define their gender.

How is that not the same thing?

[Tiamatty]

How is that not the same thing?

In theory, a bisexual might be hesitant about sleeping with a transgender person, or a transsexual, or someone else who doesn't strictly fit the binary. A pansexual doesn't care the gender binary at all.

[NexusTenebrare]

Besides, why would you want Iceman to be gay? The guy's boring. He has all the personality of drywall. There are way more interesting characters who could be gay.

Tch.
This from someone who likes Prodigy. The biggest bore in comics.
Iceman is great. The problem is that most writers aren't interested in using him and of those that do, not all of them manage to do so successfully.
And Iceman has plenty of personality. He's one of the more lighthearted characters in the MU where the vast majority are dark, brooding messes.

[Tiamatty]

Tch.
This from someone who likes Prodigy. The biggest bore in comics.
Iceman is great. The problem is that most writers aren't interested in using him and of those that do, not all of them manage to do so successfully.
And Iceman has plenty of personality. He's one of the more lighthearted characters in the MU where the vast majority are dark, brooding messes.

I disagree with almost every word here, except maybe "the."

Prodigy's cool. He's not one of my favourites, but he's an interesting character. He's got the angle of feeling like he didn't earn his knowledge. Losing his powers made him more determined to find ways to pull his weight. He's a genius, in a medium where relatively few geniuses are minority characters. He's got a lot going on.

Iceman is dull. I disagree with him actually being all that light-hearted - for a long, long, long time, he was a whiny, angsty mess. He spent years bouncing from one crush to another. Even when he is light-hearted, it's utterly generic - there are shitloads of happy, funny characters out there. Even in the X-Men, you've got characters like Nightcrawler, Kitty, Emma, Beast (and that's not even getting into the kids) - characters with strong senses of humour, most of them actually pretty unique. Even Scott's got a nice deadpan sense of humour, a lot of the time. Iceman's got pranks. Actually, correct that, he's got a prank - he makes things cold. Haha, yeah, that was hilarious the first dozen times, get a new routine, you one-note jackass. Even the Human Torch traditionally had plenty of variety in the pranks he pulled on the Thing.

Iceman has almost no personality. He's "nice guy who makes ice-related jokes." Ice jokes are all he has going for him.

[NexusTenebrare]

I disagree with almost every word here, except maybe "the."

Prodigy's cool. He's not one of my favourites, but he's an interesting character. He's got the angle of feeling like he didn't earn his knowledge. Losing his powers made him more determined to find ways to pull his weight. He's a genius, in a medium where relatively few geniuses are minority characters. He's got a lot going on.

Iceman is dull. I disagree with him actually being all that light-hearted - for a long, long, long time, he was a whiny, angsty mess. He spent years bouncing from one crush to another. Even when he is light-hearted, it's utterly generic - there are shitloads of happy, funny characters out there. Even in the X-Men, you've got characters like Nightcrawler, Kitty, Emma, Beast (and that's not even getting into the kids) - characters with strong senses of humour, most of them actually pretty unique. Even Scott's got a nice deadpan sense of humour, a lot of the time. Iceman's got pranks. Actually, correct that, he's got a prank - he makes things cold. Haha, yeah, that was hilarious the first dozen times, get a new routine, you one-note jackass. Even the Human Torch traditionally had plenty of variety in the pranks he pulled on the Thing.

Iceman has almost no personality. He's "nice guy who makes ice-related jokes." Ice jokes are all he has going for him.

I'm not going to derail this thread any further, but no. That's all wrong.
So we'll just have to disagree.

[Wiccan615]

Weren't we having a similar discussion the other day?

I'll reiterate my thoughts...i think it would be a great idea to have one of the main line x characters be LGBT. The current roster of LGBT characters aren't used to full effect at all and though I'd love to see more of them, I think one way to get the ball rolling is making a mainstay bisexual. That way we'd get consistent representation and the lesser known characters could be used in tangent, so we'd always have at least 2 characters at a time in a story. However like others said, I would only support this if it is handled well and if it fits the character's history. I could easily see Storm, Iceman and Gambit being bi without changing their history much or at all, someone like Cyclops...not so much. Also, if they choose to go this route, they shouldn't make a big deal out of it, it should be done for representation, not publicity. They did a great job with Hulking, Wiccan, Daken, Rictor and Shatterstar for example.

Also for those saying that "why make them gay/bi, they've been hetero for years": sexuality isn't black and white. Many people dont accept or realize their sexuality till later in life or after repeated failed relationships with the opposite sex. Northstar didn't come out till 16 years after his inception and Shatterstar and Rictor didn't date till years later, Rictor was even established as hetero.

[BroHomo]

Actually, his death and rebirth means that would be easy to do. He's not the person he used to be, so who's to say he's still straight?


And I don't think it would really add "fanboyish giggles" - everyone already thinks she's bi anyway. So let her date a woman. And let her date an alien who doesn't conform to any human gender. Make it clear that it's people she's attracted to, and their gender is irrelevant to her.

Interesting idea about Angel.

I don't think she's Bi, She's clearly ONLY had relationships with men, she just happens to be a very loving woman. Two chicks can't embrace without people saying they are lesbians. I feel as if I am in high school again.

Yeah, that's bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. It is a willful misreading of the scene. As explained in the other thread - repeatedly - his powers essentially let him experience what it's like to be with a guy, and he found that it worked for him. It was a metaphor for teens discovering their sexuality through experimenting. The whole run was a metaphor for being 18 done through the lens of superheroics, and Prodigy getting experience through his powers rather than through direct experience fit into that.

This is not complicated. It's really not.

Well ya know one could say that it's not that complicated to understand that Storm is straight. She just has a lot of strong chick friends that she pals around with. Nothing wrong with that. You read that scene one way, and I read it another way. Let's just leave it at that.

I disagree with almost every word here, except maybe "the."

Prodigy's cool. He's not one of my favourites, but he's an interesting character. He's got the angle of feeling like he didn't earn his knowledge. Losing his powers made him more determined to find ways to pull his weight. He's a genius, in a medium where relatively few geniuses are minority characters. He's got a lot going on.

.

Well there's him and Black Panther, and Blue Marvel. There's almost No black hero's actually with Powers, and NO gay black hero's with powers. If they hadn't made Sunspot go the way of Michael Jackson He would've been my best bet as an LGBT black mutant.