Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, or Oracle?

[Doctor Bifrost]

Not at all. I know it sounds nuts, but I can accept a guy from a distant world who can somehow transform solar radiation into stupendous feats of strength or whatever. I can accept a guy who can run at near light speeds but somehow isn't subject to special relativity. But I have to grit my teeth to get through anything to do with Oracle, simply because it's my area of expertise.

Let me put it this way: imagine if Batman stole a biplane and flew it to one of Jupiter's moons, where he got out and hiked around for a while. You'd probably put down the comic, give your head a slow shake and have visions of The Fonz strapping on his waterskis. Such a "technology gap" would exceed some boundary of believable physics, even DCU physics.

No, I understand the difference between accepting the fantastic elements, and the "real-world" elements that one suspects the writers don't know much about. But DCU tech has advanced into the "fantastic" a while ago. Ask the chip in BG's spine. Or the system Bruce used to download and upload his memories. Given that, the idea that their device connectivity is higher doesn't throw me.

[ayanestar]

The only time I liked Babs was when she was Oracle.

[Carabas]

And not too mention played her up as a kung fu master.

But initially in BOP, till her dip in the Lazarus pit, she didn't have her cry.

Yeah, but that was when Chuck Dixon was still on it.

[Carabas]

Interesting, never really thought of it in these terms, mostly because I'm not a computer geek and all the technical jargon just goes right over my head. I'm guessing a lot of Oracle's hax abilities are a big load of BS to someone more knowledgeable?

Roughly as big a load of BS as Batman's "I have mastered all martial arts, and most branches of science, and have trained so hard that I can swing on a batrope without losing my arm".

[failo.legendkiller]

It's good to have Babs going around as Batgirl, but her role as Oracle was unique and more useful for all the DCU.
So i'm for Oracle.

[dan12456]

Roughly as big a load of BS as Batman's "I have mastered all martial arts, and most branches of science, and have trained so hard that I can swing on a batrope without losing my arm".

Yeah honestly anyone that's "elite" at anything in comics is completely unbelievable by real world standards.

[The_Greatest_Username]

I love Barbara Gordon in either role, but my preference is for her as Batgirl.

[SiegePerilous02]

Roughly as big a load of BS as Batman's "I have mastered all martial arts, and most branches of science, and have trained so hard that I can swing on a batrope without losing my arm".

Yeah honestly anyone that's "elite" at anything in comics is completely unbelievable by real world standards.

I think that cgh meant that not just Oracle's abilities are unrealistic, but the technology she has is not capable of doing the stuff she has it do. At least that's the impression I got from his/her posts. I'm not in that field so Oracle's abilities don't take me out of the story at all, but for someone like cgh that's obviously not the case.

[dan12456]

I think that cgh meant that not just Oracle's abilities are unrealistic, but the technology she has is not capable of doing the stuff she has it do. At least that's the impression I got from his/her posts. I'm not in that field so Oracle's abilities don't take me out of the story at all, but for someone like cgh that's obviously not the case.

Yeah I know, but the human body isn't capable of swimming as fast as Aquaman or taking the beating Batman does either.
I have no doubt what Oracle does is impossible, but so is everything else in comics, even things not explained via superpowers.

[Carabas]

I think that cgh meant that not just Oracle's abilities are unrealistic, but the technology she has is not capable of doing the stuff she has it do. At least that's the impression I got from his/her posts. I'm not in that field so Oracle's abilities don't take me out of the story at all, but for someone like cgh that's obviously not the case.

She had access to the JLA toybox, which includes goodies from New Genesis.

The hardware and software she used is stuff not available on planet earth, and took Bruce Wayne's kind of money to pay for it.

Oracle was a bona fide superhero, and superheroes, even the street-level ones that don't have powers, tend to do extraordinairy stuff that is simply not possible in real life.

[atomicbattery]

When I think of Barbara Gordon I think of Batgirl, and when I think of Batgirl I think of Barbara Gordon.

same for me

[Celgress]

I prefer Babs being Oracle, but that is like because I grew up with her in that role.

[Godlike13]

How about Nightwing

[godisawesome]

How about Nightwing

Oooooh...
Not going to lie. My first thought was "What are we talking about? Hey, nice costume-....Smallville Nightwing. I'm looking at Smallville Nightwing. I'm looking at quite possibly the most small minded and petty attempt to bury a character in comicdom, and there's no way I'll ever be able to look past that."

Anyway, back to Babs...I cited Oracle, because I honestly believe that Oracle was a mile important and more powerful character that Babs as Batgirl, and I genuinely believe there's something more powerful and charismatic about a victim of sexist comic violence rising to be more powerful than she was before.

Because she was; I've still yet to see the Batgirl that I think Babs should be in comic format. For some reason, DC wasn't smart enough to keep her Oracle level skills (even as techno-babble nonsense as they might have been) and pair them with her physical skills (which were still good enough to beat up ninja's while in a wheelchair, mind you) to make a Batgirl worthy ro returning to the fore. We may get that in Rebirth, but demoting a triumphant example of overcoming tragedy back to a level that seemed to rank below all other members of the Bat-roster was stupid.

Now to be clear, I don't think the demotion was intentional. I think that Gail Simone wanted to write a more down to Earth Batgirl while Scott Lobdell went stupid OP on Jason and Tim, but the end result was we had a Babs who admitted she was a little rusty in combat and had to go use a frickin' library computer for research at the same time the two little brothers in the family were wielding gauntlet computers capable of doing almost anything or lugging around alien technology.

Babs is an OG Batfamily member on practice, and she never should have looked weaker than she was as Oracle, and especially she shouldn't have looked weaker than G2 and G3 Robins.

[Carabas]

Now to be clear, I don't think the demotion was intentional. I think that Gail Simone wanted to write a more down to Earth Batgirl while Scott Lobdell went stupid OP on Jason and Tim, but the end result was we had a Babs who admitted she was a little rusty in combat and had to go use a frickin' library computer for research at the same time the two little brothers in the family were wielding gauntlet computers capable of doing almost anything or lugging around alien technology.

I think that what Gail Simone wanted to do with the Batgirl book, and what editorial allowed her to do, don't live on the same planet.