Hyperion Meets Nighthawk

[Johnny Peril]

I really enjoyed it until Chaykin took over. I still would love to get an ending to the Redstone/Hyperion cliffhanger.

Agreed. I'm still waiting to see if Nighthawk joined the team.

[Mr MajestiK]

This Nighthawk is African-American, and he's racist, if you can call it that, against white people, since his version of the Batman origin story is that his parents were gunned down in cold blood by white racists. Afterwards, Nighthawk has sought primarily to protect black people from white aggression and to hell with everyone else, especially whites, because they're already so well-protected by the same system that routinely disenfranchises, marginalizes, and brutalizes black people.

And this makes Nighthawk racist....how?

[Michael Watkins]

And this makes Nighthawk racist....how?

I love the character. but he judges/prejudges people almost entirely on race. he's racist in the same way that Magneto is racist. i'd say that both cases are trauma induced.

[Mr MajestiK]

I love the character. but he judges/prejudges people almost entirely on race. he's racist in the same way that Magneto is racist. i'd say that both cases are trauma induced.

I've never seen Magneto as being racist.

Prejudiced yes, but racist nope.

Same applies to Nighthawk in my book.

Agreeing 100% with trauma induced.

[L.R Johansson]

I've never seen Magneto as being racist.

Prejudiced yes, but racist nope.

Same applies to Nighthawk in my book.

Agreeing 100% with trauma induced.

To what extent is there a meaningful difference? I myself view racial prejudice as just different degrees of racism.

Nighthawk not attacking innocent whites doesn't mean that he doesn't have an inherent dislike of them, merely because of race. There's even a fairly telling scene in one of the issues, wherein I believe Hyperion and him, discuss Blur (the super-speeding african american in the group) and as I recall it, since Blur doesn't feel the same way about white people as Nighthawk, he calls him a "house-N*****". Accidentally, Blur returns just as he says this, so there's a bit of... tension, in the group, after that.

[Mr MajestiK]

To what extent is there a meaningful difference? I myself view racial prejudice as just different degrees of racism.

Nighthawk not attacking innocent whites doesn't mean that he doesn't have an inherent dislike of them, merely because of race. There's even a fairly telling scene in one of the issues, wherein I believe Hyperion and him, discuss Blur (the super-speeding african american in the group) and as I recall it, since Blur doesn't feel the same way about white people as Nighthawk, he calls him a "house-N*****". Accidentally, Blur returns just as he says this, so there's a bit of... tension, in the group, after that.

I'm familiar with the material you've mentioned as regards tension between Blur and Nighthawk in the MAX books but heres the thing, Nighthawk's inherent dislike and mistrust of whites was born out of the traumatic experience he had seeing his parents killed by white racists.

I'm not sure if his parents murderers were ever brought to justice, but it's pretty clear that Nighthawk was never portrayed soley going after white antagonists because of the race of his parents killers.

He was clearly shown to be an equal opportunity tactical bone crusher who would work with characters of other ethnicities if it aided him in his crusade against crime.

And in this, he's no different to most of the other characters in the MU.

[tjarvis]

He was clearly shown to be an equal opportunity tactical bone crusher who would work with characters of other ethnicities if it aided him in his crusade against crime.

To be fair, I haven't read everything with Nighthawk, but didn't Hyperion explicitly point out that Nighthawk was only going after white people who were hurting black people there?

[Mr MajestiK]

To be fair, I haven't read everything with Nighthawk, but didn't Hyperion explicitly point out that Nighthawk was only going after white people who were hurting black people there?

What Hyperion said and what actually occured on paper were two different things entirely. (which is what I felt JMS highlighted perfectly)

In fact in the Nighthawk vs Hyperion mini-series, Nighthawk went on a one man war against the janjaweed terrorist forces in the Sudan and those cats definitely were not white.

[4sake Baned]

I've never seen Magneto as being racist.

Prejudiced yes, but racist nope.

Same applies to Nighthawk in my book.

Agreeing 100% with trauma induced.

Can't agree more racism/ being racist and being prejudice are not the sanething ppl really should learn the difference b4 throwing the terms out..

[neohuey89]

One thing that I really liked about Nighthawk (aside from the page posted by OP which I though was excellent) is that Nighthawk in a sense was the critic of the comic book history as a whole. Many people are quick to generalize Nighthawk's anger for basic racism, but to me it was commentary of not only how most comic writers have often ignored the plight that goes on in inner city surroundings, but also what kind of people are privileged enough to receive these blessings

Nighthawk isn't angry simply because he hates white people. Nighthawk is angry because he truly believes that he and his people (people of african descent) have gotten a bad rap. It's not just about crime, when he speaks to Blur he makes a comment about how the black guy couldn't get real powers. That's not just a Nighthawk comment. For years I've heard people complain (this was way before a Blue Marvel) and how we could never get a black man with SUPER powers. From his parents getting killed by racists to the prostitutes that no one cared about until he forced the team to intervene, to crack baby he saved in his own mini, there are people out that are forced to survive on their own because there's a system to puts them in this predicament (both in the story and outside the story), and Nighthawk is here to destroy that system by any means necessary.

Even when Hyperion made the comment about him not saving the white woman, Nighthawk responded that Hyperion was also guilty of the same thing. I think Nighthawk personifies that mindset that made Luke Cage force the Avengers to show up in Chicago and the heroes didn't know why they were there. That's why Nighthawk exists.

[4sake Baned]

One thing that I really liked about Nighthawk (aside from the page posted by OP which I though was excellent) is that Nighthawk in a sense was the critic of the comic book history as a whole. Many people are quick to generalize Nighthawk's anger for basic racism, but to me it was commentary of not only how most comic writers have often ignored the plight that goes on in inner city surroundings, but also what kind of people are privileged enough to receive these blessings

Nighthawk isn't angry simply because he hates white people. Nighthawk is angry because he truly believes that he and his people (people of african descent) have gotten a bad rap. It's not just about crime, when he speaks to Blur he makes a comment about how the black guy couldn't get real powers. That's not just a Nighthawk comment. For years I've heard people complain (this was way before a Blue Marvel) and how we could never get a black man with SUPER powers. From his parents getting killed by racists to the prostitutes that no one cared about until he forced the team to intervene, to crack baby he saved in his own mini, there are people out that are forced to survive on their own because there's a system to puts them in this predicament (both in the story and outside the story), and Nighthawk is here to destroy that system by any means necessary.

Even when Hyperion made the comment about him not saving the white woman, Nighthawk responded that Hyperion was also guilty of the same thing. I think Nighthawk personifies that mindset that made Luke Cage force the Avengers to show up in Chicago and the heroes didn't know why they were there. That's why Nighthawk exists.

Excellent points..

[Mr MajestiK]

One thing that I really liked about Nighthawk (aside from the page posted by OP which I though was excellent) is that Nighthawk in a sense was the critic of the comic book history as a whole. Many people are quick to generalize Nighthawk's anger for basic racism, but to me it was commentary of not only how most comic writers have often ignored the plight that goes on in inner city surroundings, but also what kind of people are privileged enough to receive these blessings

Nighthawk isn't angry simply because he hates white people. Nighthawk is angry because he truly believes that he and his people (people of african descent) have gotten a bad rap. It's not just about crime, when he speaks to Blur he makes a comment about how the black guy couldn't get real powers. That's not just a Nighthawk comment. For years I've heard people complain (this was way before a Blue Marvel) and how we could never get a black man with SUPER powers. From his parents getting killed by racists to the prostitutes that no one cared about until he forced the team to intervene, to crack baby he saved in his own mini, there are people out that are forced to survive on their own because there's a system to puts them in this predicament (both in the story and outside the story), and Nighthawk is here to destroy that system by any means necessary.

Even when Hyperion made the comment about him not saving the white woman, Nighthawk responded that Hyperion was also guilty of the same thing. I think Nighthawk personifies that mindset that made Luke Cage force the Avengers to show up in Chicago and the heroes didn't know why they were there. That's why Nighthawk exists.

This the realest break down of Nighthawk's character I've read in a long time.

Mad props Neohuey89.

[Huntsman Spider]

One thing that I really liked about Nighthawk (aside from the page posted by OP which I though was excellent) is that Nighthawk in a sense was the critic of the comic book history as a whole. Many people are quick to generalize Nighthawk's anger for basic racism, but to me it was commentary of not only how most comic writers have often ignored the plight that goes on in inner city surroundings, but also what kind of people are privileged enough to receive these blessings

Nighthawk isn't angry simply because he hates white people. Nighthawk is angry because he truly believes that he and his people (people of african descent) have gotten a bad rap. It's not just about crime, when he speaks to Blur he makes a comment about how the black guy couldn't get real powers. That's not just a Nighthawk comment. For years I've heard people complain (this was way before a Blue Marvel) and how we could never get a black man with SUPER powers. From his parents getting killed by racists to the prostitutes that no one cared about until he forced the team to intervene, to crack baby he saved in his own mini, there are people out that are forced to survive on their own because there's a system to puts them in this predicament (both in the story and outside the story), and Nighthawk is here to destroy that system by any means necessary.

Even when Hyperion made the comment about him not saving the white woman, Nighthawk responded that Hyperion was also guilty of the same thing. I think Nighthawk personifies that mindset that made Luke Cage force the Avengers to show up in Chicago and the heroes didn't know why they were there. That's why Nighthawk exists.

Also agreed. That was why I added "if you can call it that" to my sentence about Nighthawk and possibly being racist, because of exactly that nuance, that you can't compare a white person who hates, distrusts, dislikes, and/or resents nonwhites and adopts that standpoint from a position of relatively greater socioeconomic/political/cultural privilege to a nonwhite person who has most likely been victimized or disenfranchised at some point by the same system that protects and enables white people at the expense of nonwhite people and has that trauma or struggle informing his or her perspective on whites. And hell, Nighthawk is against anyone exploiting the black community, even other black people, as demonstrated in one scene where he utterly physically and verbally wrecks a pimp, calling him out for how he makes it look cool to impressionable black youth to exploit and abuse their own.

[DIVINITY]

One thing that I really liked about Nighthawk (aside from the page posted by OP which I though was excellent) is that Nighthawk in a sense was the critic of the comic book history as a whole. Many people are quick to generalize Nighthawk's anger for basic racism, but to me it was commentary of not only how most comic writers have often ignored the plight that goes on in inner city surroundings, but also what kind of people are privileged enough to receive these blessings

Nighthawk isn't angry simply because he hates white people. Nighthawk is angry because he truly believes that he and his people (people of african descent) have gotten a bad rap. It's not just about crime, when he speaks to Blur he makes a comment about how the black guy couldn't get real powers. That's not just a Nighthawk comment. For years I've heard people complain (this was way before a Blue Marvel) and how we could never get a black man with SUPER powers. From his parents getting killed by racists to the prostitutes that no one cared about until he forced the team to intervene, to crack baby he saved in his own mini, there are people out that are forced to survive on their own because there's a system to puts them in this predicament (both in the story and outside the story), and Nighthawk is here to destroy that system by any means necessary.

Even when Hyperion made the comment about him not saving the white woman, Nighthawk responded that Hyperion was also guilty of the same thing. I think Nighthawk personifies that mindset that made Luke Cage force the Avengers to show up in Chicago and the heroes didn't know why they were there. That's why Nighthawk exists.

Well Said!!!!

[Michael Watkins]

One thing that I really liked about Nighthawk (aside from the page posted by OP which I though was excellent) is that Nighthawk in a sense was the critic of the comic book history as a whole. Many people are quick to generalize Nighthawk's anger for basic racism, but to me it was commentary of not only how most comic writers have often ignored the plight that goes on in inner city surroundings, but also what kind of people are privileged enough to receive these blessings

Nighthawk isn't angry simply because he hates white people. Nighthawk is angry because he truly believes that he and his people (people of african descent) have gotten a bad rap. It's not just about crime, when he speaks to Blur he makes a comment about how the black guy couldn't get real powers. That's not just a Nighthawk comment. For years I've heard people complain (this was way before a Blue Marvel) and how we could never get a black man with SUPER powers. From his parents getting killed by racists to the prostitutes that no one cared about until he forced the team to intervene, to crack baby he saved in his own mini, there are people out that are forced to survive on their own because there's a system to puts them in this predicament (both in the story and outside the story), and Nighthawk is here to destroy that system by any means necessary.

Even when Hyperion made the comment about him not saving the white woman, Nighthawk responded that Hyperion was also guilty of the same thing. I think Nighthawk personifies that mindset that made Luke Cage force the Avengers to show up in Chicago and the heroes didn't know why they were there. That's why Nighthawk exists.

maybe we'll see more of that explored now that Nighthawk's in the 616. I'm sure that Blue Marvel's going to love him. but, imo, Richmond is a bigot. and so is Magneto. it's their fatal flaw. and it's also what drives them to do what they do. what they do is protect their own; almost to the exclusion of others. internally, Nighthawk sees white people as morally inferior. his view of the world is permanently colored by really horrible experiences, in his past. in that way he's a lot like my own father. doesn't make him a bad person. no one is all good or all bad. but, to me, it's seems obvious that we are to take Nighthawk's prejudice as a failing. it's why they kept playing him off of Stan; a somewhat innocent character.

on another note, the beauty of it is that we saw (in real time) bad experiences with humans turn Hyperion into Nighthawk. but, of course, Hyperion didn't have a group of his own people to protect. instead he just decided that everyone needed to be controlled. oh and Zarda was very openly speciest.