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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    No, she's was still a teenage girl. Her dialogue in earlier stories and the reaction Hal first had when she aged herself with the ring showed that. Having boobs doesn't mean oh it's okay now.



    I don't like any work of Whedon's that's not Toy Story but I remember complaints about Twilight and how you had Edward basically stalking a teenage girl. This sounds similar to that.



    Can't speak on the latter comics because they were before my time but when I read The Judas Contract in HS I thought that was disturbing too. I read that story years after it came out but it came off like statutory rape to me as a teenager. The difference is that Deathstroke is a villain and Jordan is a hero so people probably took notice with that. Then there's the scene in Brave & the Bold where he has to keep telling himself not to hit on Supergirl.



    I've read that story, but somehow I didn't see her as a trainee. I thought she already was experienced but Hal was sent to keep her in the GLC. I may have to read that story again.
    Even then.The emphasis was more on Edwards creepy behavior rather that his age.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Who says GL never had a sidekick? Meet Wally West...



    ...Kid Lantern!

    He, ah, had a pretty brief tour of duty.
    Buh-bye

  3. #33
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    Robin was a teen-ager (the Teen Wonder in the Teen Titans) and Batgirl had to be in her mid-twenties (because Barbara was a congresswoman and you had to be 25 to sit in Congress on Earth-One). There's a clear difference between teens at the age of consent having relationships with older people than kids in the same situation. Arisia was young but it's unclear just how young--given she's an alien. Querl Dox has to be very old given Coluan lifespans, but he gets romantically involved with Kara Zor-El--who herself went up and down in age, from fourteen to as old as twenty-five. Sometimes it seemed creepy to me that Jimmy Olsen was sweet on Supergirl, too--because again his age went all over the place, so he could have been as old as twenty-five or as young as sixteen, while Linda Lee seemed to be between fourteen and sixteen in the early adventures.

    The way I see it, we give most of these stories a pass, because the characters involved are fantastic creations who don't age the same as people in the real world. Some characters stay in print for decades at the same age, while others rapidly age in mere months--especially any newborn babies.

  4. #34
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Robin was a teen-ager (the Teen Wonder in the Teen Titans) and Batgirl had to be in her mid-twenties (because Barbara was a congresswoman and you had to be 25 to sit in Congress on Earth-One). There's a clear difference between teens at the age of consent having relationships with older people than kids in the same situation.
    But, the Robin/Batgirl situation wasn't even an issue of "the age of consent"; there was no romantic relationship between the two of them back in those pre-Nightwing/pre-CoIE days.
    They were partners in terms of friends who worked well together, but they both had the Batman link to bring them together in the first place.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by warzon View Post
    BLACK CANARY
    She had Sin, for a while anyway. In Justice League Year One by Mark Waid, she was 19 years old when she joined the Justice League. Also they had two Black Canaries at the time with Dinah Laurel following Dinah Drake's footsteps. Though she was still written in the book like an adult instead of a teenager

    GREEN LANTERN
    Kai-Ro from the future Justice League in Batman Beyond was a kid Green Lantern.

    THE ATOM
    He was actually a teenager at some point in the 90's. Ray Palmer was deaged and was leading a group of Titans.

    HAWKMAN
    Golden Eagle. Lost and forgotten since Hawkman's continuity became a mess.

    RED TORNADO
    He built a kid side kick of him on Batman: The Brave and the Bold and it went evil.

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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But, the Robin/Batgirl situation wasn't even an issue of "the age of consent"; there was no romantic relationship between the two of them back in those pre-Nightwing/pre-CoIE days.
    They were partners in terms of friends who worked well together, but they both had the Batman link to bring them together in the first place.
    She kissed him on one of the issues of Batman Family. Dick was on his chauvinistic rants about how girls shouldn't be crime fighters and she kissed him to throw him off and make him go away. There was some rivalry that later turned into sexual tension between them. I even recall a panel where Babs contemplates her feelings for Dick but the age difference (he was 18, she was 25) was a road block for her. Sometime later, when they were fighting the Outsider, Dick confesses her feelings to her which he likens to falling in love with your teacher, only to find out that Babs slept though his soliloquy.

    That's pretty much it for them in Pre Crisis, it wasn't until the 90's with the DCAU and under the pen of Chuck Dixon that the romance between them bloomed.

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  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I never understood the whole outrage over Arisia. The way Joe Staton drew her she obviously wasn't a little kid. Katma Tui was young and inexperienced when Hal trained her, so Arisia was like that. I never thought of her as a teen sidekick. She was part of a group of GLs that were headquartered on Earth. She might have been younger than Hal (although not really as it later turned out) yet not so young that it was illegal for them to be dating and there were lots of couples in the DCU at that time (and probably still now) where if you thought about it too much one of them had to be older than the other.
    On the but about her turning out later on not to have been so young: that was a Johns retcon in response to the creepiness of the original. In fact, Johns took something from the original (the different orbital period of Arisia's homeworld) and completely inverted it: originally, while Arisia was chasing after Hall, she argued that her world orbited its star twice as often as Earth, so he should think of her being 30ish. In Johns' retcon, he initially thought she was younger than she actually was because her world's orbital period was slower than Earth's, so that her reported age was in the teens using her own calendar.

    But that retcon was twenty years later, and as I said a direct effort to undo the ick factor of he original story.
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  8. #38
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    One thing that bugs me about fandom is sometimes when these provocative stories happen the character is blamed and other times the writer is blamed. With Hal, it seems to always be him--the fictional character--that's blamed not the writer. I think if the burden is put on the writer it's a lot easier to see past those stories and just dismiss them, rather than attaching them as defining features to the character.

    When Superman kills the Phantom Zoners in the Byrne run, most of fandom blames John Byrne--they don't blame the fictional character. Fandom sees it rightly that Byrne created this situation and forced Superman into it. It's therefore easier to look past that story and say it shouldn't be accepted as canon--let's get rid of it or explain it away.

    Fandom seems to play favourites. Some fictional characters don't get a fair shake while others do.

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