REVIEW: "Captain America: Civil War" is Everything We Want in a Superhero Movie (and More)

[kalorama]

That is one thing that made me chuckle when I watched Civil War the first time. The UN doesn't have power, because they don't have a military. All their troops are borrowed and volunteered from governments of the member nations. The power in the UN is with the Security Council, of which the US is a member.

Like you said, with the Avengers being attaches of SHIELD, there is no way the US and the Avengers themselves would ever cede control of their actions to a league of foreign nations.

In the movies:

-- The Avengers don't actually work for SHIELD. In fact, at the time of AoU and Civil War, SHIELD no longer officially existed. The Avengers entire operation was being privately bankrolled by Tony Stark.

--SHIELD does/did not work for the United States. The original SHIELD was a worldwide peacekeeping agency that was itself operated under the auspices of a council of international oversight.

[Doctor Know]

In the movies:

-- The Avengers don't actually work for SHIELD. In fact, at the time of AoU and Civil War, SHIELD no longer officially existed. The Avengers entire operation was being privately bankrolled by Tony Stark.

--SHIELD does/did not work for the United States. The original SHIELD was a worldwide peacekeeping agency that was itself operated under the auspices of a council of international oversight.

It's why I referred to the Avengers attachés of SHIELD. They're not employed by SHIELD but in Avengers 1, TWS and AOU they do SHIELD missions (fight HYDRA, retrieve the Tesseract and Loki's staff etc) and follow SHIELD directives.

[simbob4000]

In the movies:

-- The Avengers don't actually work for SHIELD. In fact, at the time of AoU and Civil War, SHIELD no longer officially existed. The Avengers entire operation was being privately bankrolled by Tony Stark.

--SHIELD does/did not work for the United States. The original SHIELD was a worldwide peacekeeping agency that was itself operated under the auspices of a council of international oversight.

The movies seem all over the place with what SHIELD is. In Iron Man they're a US organization like in The Ultimates, in Avengers they're more like 616. In The Winter Soldier it seemed like they were back to being a US organization again.

[kalorama]

It's why I referred to the Avengers attachés of SHIELD. They're not employed by SHIELD but in Avengers 1, TWS and AOU they do SHIELD missions (fight HYDRA, retrieve the Tesseract and Loki's staff etc) and follow SHIELD directives.

Except they aren't "attachés of SHIELD" and don't actually "follow SHIELD directives" in any of the movies. When the quinjet takes off for NY in Avengers, the person monitoring the helicarrier flight deck tags it as an "unauthorized" launch. They may be pursuing the same goal as Fury, but they are not actually under Fury's command or following his orders when they actually come together as a team. And their disinterest in doing so is made clear in Tony and Steve's conversation just before they take off. In fact, throughout the movie, it's made very clear that they don't trust Nick Fury. And even when Steve is working for SHIELD in W.S., he (A) is doing so solo, not as a member of the Avengers and (B) still doesn't really trust Fury. The Avengers, as a group, are never shown to really be under Fury's/SHIELD's thumb.

[jackolover]

Reviewing this movie after 3 viewings now, it is like this:

It was a terrible world that this story showed. The world thinks that because heroes intervene, more and more threats appear in response, because the Mighty Avengers are so powerful. It's false logic, but it equates to letting every country in the world attain Democracy, (replacing oppressive regimes), appears to unleash so many more threats in the world. As if Democracy is at fault, instead of the self control of forces inside nations.

It also leaves the state of the Avengers in turmoil after this. Now, they are vigilantes, that nobody wants around, and have been condemned for their help. In future movies, that aspect will be focussed on. The other Civil War was between Tony Stark and Bucky/Cap, because Bucky killed Starks Parents. It's a pretty hard thing to forgive and I can't see Tony doing that.

[Saturius]

Those are two different actresses. Alfre Woodard played the mom and Viola Davis is in Suicide Squad.

[jackolover]

Then they look like twins. Thanks for that.

[Midvillian1322]

Reviewing this movie after 3 viewings now, it is like this:

It was a terrible world that this story showed. The world thinks that because heroes intervene, more and more threats appear in response, because the Mighty Avengers are so powerful. It's false logic, but it equates to letting every country in the world attain Democracy, (replacing oppressive regimes), appears to unleash so many more threats in the world. As if Democracy is at fault, instead of the self control of forces inside nations.

It also leaves the state of the Avengers in turmoil after this. Now, they are vigilantes, that nobody wants around, and have been condemned for their help. In future movies, that aspect will be focussed on. The other Civil War was between Tony Stark and Bucky/Cap, because Bucky killed Starks Parents. It's a pretty hard thing to forgive and I can't see Tony doing that.

Comics have played with the idea of Superheroes causing super villians for a long time. Batman appears to take down corruption and organized crime. People like Joker are in direct response to batman etc.. superheores inspire super villians. And i think Tonys in a better place by the end of the movie, he might not forgive bucky. But i think he understands or atleast is trying to move past it. Otherwise he woulda been all over cap, instead of puting Ross on hold while cap break his team out of prison.

[jackolover]

Comics have played with the idea of Superheroes causing super villians for a long time. Batman appears to take down corruption and organized crime. People like Joker are in direct response to batman etc.. superheores inspire super villians. And i think Tonys in a better place by the end of the movie, he might not forgive bucky. But i think he understands or atleast is trying to move past it. Otherwise he woulda been all over cap, instead of puting Ross on hold while cap break his team out of prison.

It's possible Tony is moving passed Buckys culpability, but I must be reading Tony as a bit more emotionally connected to his parents death, here. Yes Bucky was a robot at the time, but the imagery makes Bucky look like a loose canon, and maybe is the reason Bucky decides to remove himself from the picture.

But freezing Bucky is not the answer. There needs to be a solution to the trigger words implanted in Bucky, and removing them. A cosmic cube could do that.

[brettc1]

Vision's hypothesis that more powerful heroes create more powerful villains is based on his experiences with Ultron, but is ultimately the logic of a machine.

Another way to look it is that there are other forces bringing heroes together at just the time they are needed to battle against truly terrible threats.

Considering Doctor Strange is coming in November, I think we will see more of the latter idea presented.

[Midvillian1322]

It's possible Tony is moving passed Buckys culpability, but I must be reading Tony as a bit more emotionally connected to his parents death, here. Yes Bucky was a robot at the time, but the imagery makes Bucky look like a loose canon, and maybe is the reason Bucky decides to remove himself from the picture.

But freezing Bucky is not the answer. There needs to be a solution to the trigger words implanted in Bucky, and removing them. A cosmic cube could do that.

They froze bucky while wakandan scientists look for the answer. They arent freezing him for shits and giggles.

[jackolover]

They froze bucky while wakandan scientists look for the answer. They arent freezing him for shits and giggles.

They could have kept him awake to do that. No, Bucky deliberately wants himself frozen. I don't know if it's guilt, and his punishment, or, it's a safeguard in case someone gets through Wakandan security.

[Midvillian1322]

They could have kept him awake to do that. No, Bucky deliberately wants himself frozen. I don't know if it's guilt, and his punishment, or, it's a safeguard in case someone gets through Wakandan security.

He doesnt wanna be used as a weapon again. So untill they can fix him he rather be frozen

[AJBopp]

But freezing Bucky is not the answer. There needs to be a solution to the trigger words implanted in Bucky, and removing them. A cosmic cube could do that.

The cosmic cube is a space gem. It could not do that. It would need the mind gem in Vision's forehead to do that.

[AJBopp]

It also leaves the state of the Avengers in turmoil after this. Now, they are vigilantes, that nobody wants around, and have been condemned for their help. In future movies, that aspect will be focussed on. The other Civil War was between Tony Stark and Bucky/Cap, because Bucky killed Starks Parents. It's a pretty hard thing to forgive and I can't see Tony doing that.

Civil War ended in a place that would require no more than 5-10 minutes of screen time for the Avengers to reassemble and put aside their differences to confront a menace on the scope of Thanos. Just like each Iron Man sequel required only a few minutes of screen time to put Tony in a completely different mental space than the last time we saw him.