REVIEW: "Captain America: Civil War" is Everything We Want in a Superhero Movie (and More)

[kalorama]

Umm Bucky videoed the assination? It's really not that hard. Camera and recording tech has existed for nearly 100 years. So him setting up the spot to kill them isn't that hard to understand. There are tons of films where killers, and assisns do this exact thing.

While it's certainly possible that Bucky specifically chose that spot ahead of time as his kill point and set up the camera to record the action as proof of mission completion for his masters, the fact that Barnes was shown shooting the camera out with a pistol after killing the Starks strongly suggests that he didn't put it there. But if he didn't put it there then that leads to the question of how/where he got the physical videotape. Exterior security cameras aren't generally connected to on-site to external recorders, so it's not like he could have just popped the tape out right there at the side of the road.

[The Cool Thatguy]

While it's certainly possible that Bucky specifically chose that spot ahead of time as his kill point and set up the camera to record the action as proof of mission completion for his masters, the fact that Barnes was shown shooting the camera out with a pistol after killing the Starks strongly suggests that he didn't put it there. But if he didn't put it there then that leads to the question of how/where he got the physical videotape. Exterior security cameras aren't generally connected to on-site to external recorders, so it's not like he could have just popped the tape out right there at the side of the road.

Shield would have investigated the death. Shield is/was Hydra.

Boom.

[Striderblack01]

To me it all comes down to one basic question, asked from Tony Stark's perspective: If the Accords had been in place prior to the events in AoU and all of the Avengers (including Cap) had been operating under its provisions, how would that have prevented what happened in Sokovia? As a guy who claims to be a futurist, Stark would have to know that it almost certainly wouldn't have...

So there's really no credible story or character-based foundation by which the outcome in Sokovia would be enough to spin him in the opposite direction.

The Accords aren't just about prevention, but about accountability as well.

1) It would've been up to the UN to call the Avengers to Sokovia.

2) The Avengers would be held partially responsible for the destruction, and all the dead children.

Tony is every bit the "I'll do what I want and you can't stop me", but he's also a human being. He changes his mind, he experiences regret - he feels. He knows he isn't perfect, and he can be compelled to see his mistakes and to right them. The entire reason he became Iron Man was to make amends for making weapons and war-profiteering.

For me, the reasons are there.
But I do wish we had another movie before this one to explore them further. I enjoyed that aspect of Iron Man 3, and breaking up with Pepper is too big of an event to happen off-screen.

[nirockzzz]

Who would you think is the gud guy here? I mean Who was more right in this movie? What are your opinions?

[Ronin705]

Caps wrong for:
- keeping info from Tony
- not trying to work within the accords with the info he had

Tony wrong for:
- Going after Bucky KNOWING he was mind controlled
- bringing a 16 yr old spiderman into an avengers fight
- Borderline abusing his position to get around adhering to the accords
-being so whiny ho since I.M. 2

[Michael Watkins]

I found Steve to be extremely unreasonable throughout the picture. I'm sure that he meant well. but Tony wasn't as much of a heel as he was in the comics; making Cap look even worse. even Ross started out by saying that he respects what the Avengers do. he just wanted them to seem less scary to the international community. and he was right. they did have no business going into other countries to wage private war. it's one thing if they are requested. but they ended up wrecking Sokovia.

[Michael Watkins]

Caps wrong for:
- keeping info from Tony
- not trying to work within the accords with the info he had

Tony wrong for:
- Going after Bucky KNOWING he was mind controlled
- bringing a 16 yr old spiderman into an avengers fight
- Borderline abusing his position to get around adhering to the accords
-being so whiny ho since I.M. 2

did he know that? the Winter Soldier wasn't a known entity.

[sifighter]

Honestly I agreed with Cap the entire time about not wanting to answer to the worlds governments given past incidents within the MCU, mainly that they tried to Nuke NYC in the Avengers movie and that an organization like SHIELD was able to get infiltrated by the likes of Hydra in the first place to the point where they had to dismantle the entire organization. Not to mention he's also right that eventually they'll tell them to not do something and they'll go ahead and do it anyway with no real way of the government of stopping them unless they send other heroes.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

did he know that? the Winter Soldier wasn't a known entity.

Regardless of if Tony knew or not, the question is, did he care? My guess would be no. I mean, he watched Bucky murder his parents in cold blood on that video, after that, it was "Moe! Larry! The cheese!" I defy anyone to act differently. Meanwhile, I would put the lion's share of the blame at Steve's feet, he hid the truth about Bucky slaying the Starks, he chose to go the renegade route to save his friend, and to maintain autonomy because he chafed under the guidelines of the accords. But, yeah, it was a mess all around.

[Michael Watkins]

Honestly I agreed with Cap the entire time about not wanting to answer to the worlds governments given past incidents within the MCU, mainly that they tried to Nuke NYC in the Avengers movie and that an organization like SHIELD was able to get infiltrated by the likes of Hydra in the first place to the point where they had to dismantle the entire organization. Not to mention he's also right that eventually they'll tell them to not do something and they'll go ahead and do it anyway with no real way of the government of stopping them unless they send other heroes.

that's why I say that Cap was unreasonable. he wasn't giving up authority. this was about letting the people the Avengers were supposed to be protecting feel that the Avengers were not above being held accountable for their actions. Steve's response is basically to tell them that he's not going to be held accountable. he could have just played along and, as you said, go ahead and do what he wants to do. this wasn't a hard choice. he makes Norman Osborn seem like a genius for deputizing the supervillain community.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Regardless of if Tony knew or not, the question is, did he care? My guess would be no. I mean, he watched Bucky murder his parents in cold blood on that video, after that, it was "Moe! Larry! The cheese!" I defy anyone to act differently.

That's true. I don't know how anyone can blame Tony for attacking Bucky after seeing that video? I mean,before seeing that, I don't think he was even aware that his parents were murdered and here he sees them in detail been brutally executed by Bucky. Plus Bucky was just standing there, not looking remorseful or anything but like a guy who remembered exactly what he did and who had just being found out. I really can't blame Tony at all for attacking Bucky.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Btw. when I saw the title of this thread,I thought it was spoilers for the ending of the current Civil War in the comics.

[Namor'sWrath]

Tony pretty much ended up being the villain of that movie. The final fight was Cap trying to stop Tony from murdering Bucky in cold blood.

[Michael Watkins]

Tony pretty much ended up being the villain of that movie. The final fight was Cap trying to stop Tony from murdering Bucky in cold blood.

that was hot blood. he, literally, just found out how his parents were murdered.

[Namor'sWrath]

that was hot blood. he, literally, just found out how his parents were murdered.

Point taken.

Anyway, it seems like MOST of Cap's conflict in that movie is from people trying to straight up kill Bucky. The only reason he get's into it with SHIELD is because they're going to shoot him on sight (according to Black Widow) and Black Panther is trying to murder him. Then he has to fight the Avengers when they try to stop him from going after Zemo, then has to stop Tony when he goes batshit.