Superman/Wonder Woman #28

[hellacre]

Can hardly be called a kiss answer to the question. More like avoidance answer.

Would you prefer he loves Lois but instead of choosing to go tell her he decides a hot make out session with Diana? Because that is what you're saying. LOL.

[GreenLanternRanger]

Honestly, the story is going downhill for me, its still decent, but this issue was just kind of meh. Interested in learning more about the imposter Supes though.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Also, Superman not wanting to look for a cure makes me wonder if he just feels he's dying on a psychological level as well as a physical level, like he kind of *knows* that something is missing, that's he's already half dead, even though he may not consciously know.

It's... it's... almost as if he knows that there are Writers, Editors, and Publishers who rule his life and have decided that they don't want him around any more, so he has to die! The comic-book character version of a religious epiphany.

[misslane]

Eh, he's dying. Sometimes when someone is dying, you let things go that you'd otherwise hold a grudge over for a while, fight over, and eventually work out and reconcile. There isn't time, so you cut to the chase, skip over the rough parts, and if you really love someone, try to enjoy your last days together. The last thing you want is for your last memories together to be of fighting each other and saying nasty things, and so on and so forth. It's safe to say he won't do it again, because he'll be dead. And if you need a break from him after all this, you can have one soon, because, again, he'll be dead. I don't think it's doormat behavior for Diana to act this way under the circumstances. It's understanding the situation and focusing on what's most important in the time they have left. If he weren't dying, I would assume things would unfold very differently.

Yup. If the situation was different, maybe she'd hold him more accountable, make him work a little harder to make things right, and he on the other hand would have the time to make the effort to make things right. But that's not the situation. Doesn't change that the entire storyline involving their rift was written poorly, though. Shouldn't have gone down that way in the first place. But too late to change that now. And you know, its hard to really get organic characterizations anyway with a forced edict like "Superman's dying and there's nothing that can be done about it to make room for the doppleganger".

Right, so the death element allows for the forced, contrived, and unearned interaction. Everything is ignored and tied up in a bow to race to the "nice" romantic and tragic story beats. It cheapens the relationship to not address those complexities, even if there are real world explanations for why this is happening. It makes it feel cheap and stunt driven instead of character driven. It feels like pandering and fan service instead of honestly and effectively dealing with the mess that was made. All of which is to say that this All-Star Superman like dying days narrative feels like an attempt to put lipstick on a pig, for lack of a better phrase. It's putting on the semblance of a lovely and emotionally resonant story, but because it wasn't arrived at naturally and the foundation isn't there, the pay off isn't there either. To me, most of it reads as cloying and inauthentic, and not just the stuff with Diana either.

[hellacre]

Until the next set of SM books falter in a couple of years and you'll get him comig back and saying...Superman never gives up!

[Francisco]

Right, so the death element allows for the forced, contrived, and unearned interaction. Everything is ignored and tied up in a bow to race to the "nice" romantic and tragic story beats. It cheapens the relationship to not address those complexities, even if there are real world explanations for why this is happening. It makes it feel cheap and stunt driven instead of character driven. It feels like pandering and fan service instead of honestly and effectively dealing with the mess that was made. All of which is to say that this All-Star Superman like dying days narrative feels like an attempt to put lipstick on a pig, for lack of a better phrase. It's putting on the semblance of a lovely and emotionally resonant story, but because it wasn't arrived at naturally and the foundation isn't there, the pay off isn't there either. To me, most of it reads as cloying and inauthentic, and not just the stuff with Diana either.

The answer to all your complaints is that after all the stuff Superman went thru he shouldn't be dying.

[hellacre]

The answer to all your complaints is that after all the stuff Superman went thru he shouldn't be dying.

Hehe. Truth.

[misslane]

Swept under the rug just like Yang did in SM 50. But hey I won't quibble. Truth is a crossover I don't care for. I am glad to see the back of it. They made Clark act ooc.

I'd would have liked a little longer conversation between Clark and Diana...not so much to hear Diana carry on about his behaviour because seriously she wouldn't. The man you love is dying you're going to waste time railing like a shrew at him? It's a normal for people's anger to be put aside when the important things matter. I'd have liked a little more of Clark's pov about what they about to lose...but the kiss was sweet. We do get some pretty SMWW kisses. Can't fault DC for that. lol. Seals it nicely because actions speak louder than words but yep of course the interuption was typical...make us wait till May for the payoff...plus life is full of other people apart from themselves and they answer to their duty. This is why I like this couple. I am sure they want nothing more to ignore both Lois and Steve...but they won't because they do what they have to do and their little smiles signals as they ease off making out a semblance of happiness being reconciled. Plus it's nice to see Steve is okay with Clark. Tomasi respecting the Yang issue where they bonded.

I am curious about this "spirit" of Superman too. Who and what is it? He actually has memory and feelings of our Clark? And he also mentions btw as if to reinforce Clark and Diana's love for each other.

After 4 years of investment in this couple, I am glad to see DC is seeing it through its logical conclusion even if he is dying. He has way more history and events tying him to Diana in the various books they have been in than any other female in the new 52. To break them up at the end would be like Truth. Forced and hollow. And he should be so damn lucky to have someone like her.

Just because I wanted to see Diana and Clark deal with their issues doesn't mean I wanted it to happen in this particular part of the story. I'm talking about how the story was crafted before this issue. I don't think this should have been the first time they interacted since he recovered his powers, and I don't think it was necessary for her to be the last to know his current health status. I would have preferred if Clark and Diana had been able to have a moment together before he knew he was dying, because the contrived way she was kept out of the story adds to the sense of these writers not wanting to deal with the damage they had done.

It seems to me that DC's 4 years of investment meant very little if they were capable of messing around with it and subjecting the book to distracting crossovers that mostly favored Superman in terms of character development and focus. In fact, they seemed to invest quite a bit of their storytelling energies and promotion with problems existing between these two and in arcs that have them separated or fighting for a decent chunk of the time. Now they're apparently lightswitching them away from dealing with all their issues in a way that would have given the characters and their relationship some much needed substance.

Bottom line is that Truth happened. Rushing a reconciliation by making it so Clark and Diana didn't have a moment before now to process the events of Truth and before moving into sappy deathbed territory isn't respecting these characters, this romance, or the audience.

[misslane]

The answer to all your complaints is that after all the stuff Superman went thru he shouldn't be dying.

No, he shouldn't be, but that's a different critique. I'm coming at this story from the position of understanding that this is the storytelling choice that DC, its writers, and its editors made, so how the story is handled is worthy of examination. Based on the story DC decided to tell (ie. Superman is dying), it is not being handled well because its execution is riddled with inorganic contrivances. The aim is something like All Star Superman but absent the thoughtfulness, creativity, or narrative foundation to make a story like that work for New 52 Superman, particularly the post-"Truth" Superman.

[Sacred Knight]

Right, so the death element allows for the forced, contrived, and unearned interaction. Everything is ignored and tied up in a bow to race to the "nice" romantic and tragic story beats. It cheapens the relationship to not address those complexities, even if there are real world explanations for why this is happening. It makes it feel cheap and stunt driven instead of character driven. It feels like pandering and fan service instead of honestly and effectively dealing with the mess that was made. All of which is to say that this All-Star Superman like dying days narrative feels like an attempt to put lipstick on a pig, for lack of a better phrase. It's putting on the semblance of a lovely and emotionally resonant story, but because it wasn't arrived at naturally and the foundation isn't there, the pay off isn't there either. To me, most of it reads as cloying and inauthentic, and not just the stuff with Diana either.

Pretty much. If allowed time, one could craft a quality story that tied up the loose ends, repaired the bad characterization from the past story, and lal that stuff. But unfortunately there's no time for that now with the new direction. Now it was Tomasi who wrote the bad relationship problems in Truth to begin with, but in this instance I don't fault him for not being able to repair it correctly because he doesn't have time now anyway. Maybe if he did he still wouldnt' do a good job of it, I dunno. But as it stands this is the best that can be gotten; a swept under the rug reconciliation based on the swirling emotions of one party dying.

[SuperCrab]

It's... it's... almost as if he knows that there are Writers, Editors, and Publishers who rule his life and have decided that they don't want him around any more, so he has to die! The comic-book character version of a religious epiphany.

All kidding aside, that is probably it. I'd like to think they have legitimate storyline reasons, but I'm probably reaching.

It could easily be as simple as they made the horrible decision to kill the character off, and now feel compelled to have the character go meekly and pass the torch so that they don't lose readers over it. I kind of hope they do lose readers- it'd increase the chance that we get new52 Superman back, and SuperDad and SuperJon fly off into the sunset.

[Agniwolf]

Just because I wanted to see Diana and Clark deal with their issues doesn't mean I wanted it to happen in this particular part of the story. I'm talking about how the story was crafted before this issue. I don't think this should have been the first time they interacted since he recovered his powers, and I don't think it was necessary for her to be the last to know his current health status. I would have preferred if Clark and Diana had been able to have a moment together before he knew he was dying, because the contrived way she was kept out of the story adds to the sense of these writers not wanting to deal with the damage they had done.

It seems to me that DC's 4 years of investment meant very little if they were capable of messing around with it and subjecting the book to distracting crossovers that mostly favored Superman in terms of character development and focus. In fact, they seemed to invest quite a bit of their storytelling energies and promotion with problems existing between these two and in arcs that have them separated or fighting for a decent chunk of the time. Now they're apparently lightswitching them away from dealing with all their issues in a way that would have given the characters and their relationship some much needed substance.

Bottom line is that Truth happened. Rushing a reconciliation by making it so Clark and Diana didn't have a moment before now to process the events of Truth and before moving into sappy deathbed territory isn't respecting these characters, this romance, or the audience.

i do have to agree with you in this, but the best (and sadly the cruelest) aswer i can give is that beggars cannot be choosers, many things in the storyline were messed up after soule left, i still liked the circe magog to some extent because it was more focused on diana, but it still had many problems within it and was not what i was expecting. i wanted better storyline, and held firmly to the books believind it would be something to be addressed and solved, but it wasnt and there is nothing else to do than enjoy the little snippets of what could have been, but was not in favor of another agenda

[manofsteel1979]

Weakest issue of the last months worth,but still leaps and bounds beyond what we've gotten in over a year, so still, a good issue overall.

I am glad they are ending the WW/Superman thing on a positive note. If and when Nuperman returns, I do hope though we don't see Diana and Clark just jump right back into things like it never ended, I know you hardcore Diana/Clark shippers are going to say "ah there goes Mos again pushing Clois!" but I really do hope that after he returns we get a year or two of Stories focused on rebuilding the character and who he is and focus on him as a singular character and person and not rush to once again define him by who his is or isn't dating. That includes Lois AND Diana.



I view it as a second chance, a fresh start for New 52 Superman if indeed he returns. Let's finally do the hard character work and world building that should have been done from 2011 on and not rush things for the sake of stoking controversy or rewarding particular fans of certain relationships because it was "their" turn to have their preferred "ship" validated and cannonized. If DC decides to revisit this particular idea, do it right and take the time and effort or not do it at all. Fans of Superman and fans of Wonder Woman independent of that particular ship (which I am among) and fans of the "ship" itself deserve that.

[Tayswift]

They shouldn't revisit a bad idea again, like I had enough of crap. stop digging the whole deeper. new 52 superman shouldn't even comeback, do the dead and return of superman twice is just the dumbest thing. Specially if DC want to honor WW feminism

the fanservice of making WW go all soft for superman to appeal to the shippers fans was absolute garbage.

superman just let his counsin go and didn't bothered where she is. never change.

No, he shouldn't be, but that's a different critique. I'm coming at this story from the position of understanding that this is the storytelling choice that DC, its writers, and its editors made, so how the story is handled is worthy of examination. Based on the story DC decided to tell (ie. Superman is dying), it is not being handled well because its execution is riddled with inorganic contrivances. The aim is something like All Star Superman but absent the thoughtfulness, creativity, or narrative foundation to make a story like that work for New 52 Superman, particularly the post-"Truth" Superman.

the story is pretty flat. just some moving parts that are never really explained

the fake superman could be more interesting, not bad at all, but there is a lot of things moving and few time to explore it

[misslane]

i do have to agree with you in this, but the best (and sadly the cruelest) aswer i can give is that beggars cannot be choosers, many things in the storyline were messed up after soule left, i still liked the circe magog to some extent because it was more focused on diana, but it still had many problems within it and was not what i was expecting. i wanted better storyline, and held firmly to the books believind it would be something to be addressed and solved, but it wasnt and there is nothing else to do than enjoy the little snippets of what could have been, but was not in favor of another agenda

Well, I've never been a fan of the SM/WW pairing, so to "enjoy" it would be difficult on that level. However, I can appreciate stories as just stories and I do still care about the individual characters involved. In that sense, I can't just take what I can get, which is the strategy you seem to be suggesting. I think they could have done more. They were able to have Supergirl and Superman confront each other before saying their goodbyes, and they could have included at the start of this issue, or somewhere in it, a flashback page that showed us that Superman and Wonder Woman had talked in the immediate aftermath of Savage's defeat (before Superman knew he was dying), and just leave out the idiocy of Diana being the last to know. In other words, it's because Truth made so many mistakes and it wasn't followed up on effectively, that these scenes are hollow and just don't work for me and not in the way I think the writer intended it to work.