Time to ease back on the seasoning: The case for a single and singular Superman

[manofsteel1979]

So what does "seasoning" have to do with Superman's romantic status?

A long time ago (30 years ago) in a Galaxy Far Far Away (Your local Comic shop/Newstand), Superman was primarily seen as an adventure/sci-fi/action character. The focus seemed to be on his feats, his battles with his astonishing foes and amazing adventures across time and space in his never ending battle for TRUTH and JUSTICE. Yeah he did have a long term ongoing on and off relationship with Lois Lane,but at the time the sun was sitting on the Pre-Crisis incarnation, he was no longer with Lois Lane and Clark Kent was dating (gasp!) Lana Lang, and it was actually pretty hot and heavy (for the early 80's that is).

Don't remember that? No? Well, you'd be forgiven, as at the time, Superman's romantic life was just a small aspect of the character's adventures/existence and wasn't the main focus of his stories.Kind of like a seasoning or an ingredient in a very varied and robust dish. It added flavor to the stew,but never overwhelmed the direction or the overall stories. It was just one aspect of many.


Fast forward to recent history. You still have stories focused on adventures and battles etc...but now, sometimes among fan discussion the discourse and the stories themselves there has been a change. Now it is very common for things to come down to one question.

"Lois Lane or Wonder Woman?"

On one side, You have certain vocal fans of the Lois and Superman relationship who refuse to acknowledge or give time to a Superman featuring Wonder Woman as his love interest, automatically labeling him a "jerk" or a "bully" or the ever popular "Not My Superman!" simply because he hasn't "saved" himself for his "one true love Lois Lane" and even use feminism to bolster their dislike of the couple by implying sexism and other nefarious things at work, and even going so far as to implying if you dare like said relationship, you are a sexist yourself and should be ashamed of yourself for having even dared have a different preferrence.

On the other, you have certain very vocal fans of the Superman and Wonder Woman relationship who feel that it's "their" turn to have their preferred "ship" validated and made the main stream in all versions of the character, many of which have some level of dislike of Lois Lane ranging from ambivalence to white hot hatred , who point to the higher sales of the title that starred them as proof of it's superiority over the traditonal, and similarly have no interest whatsoever in reading a Superman who would ever look at Lois Lane as a possible love interest and refuse to read any Superman comic going forward that doesn't prominently feature the "power couple" as the be all end all.

Most of us, I feel fall within the middle. I have not made it secret my preference for Lois and Clark (or Clois to use the shipper vernacular) and my distaste to how quickly and haphazardly the whole WW/Supes thing came about,but when push comes to shove in the overall scheme of things, I am a SUPERMAN fan first and foremost and I read his adventures for...well, adventures of the greatest damned hero ever created. I know there are some that prefer SM/WW and disagree with me in that context but I think most agree that first and foremost we read Superman comics for Superman...and not for who he is, or isn't dating.Ultimately we just want good stories and don't give a damn about the rest.

I'm not the only one here in recent days who have made the same observation and drawn the same conclusion. The status of Superman's romantic life and arguments of the virtues of one relationship over another have taken such a stranglehold on the character and frankly it's hurting him and is causing too much division in his fan base. We are losing sight of Superman the Action/sci-fi/fantasy character and he's being overwhelmed by Superman, the romantic male lead of a Soap opera, almost a Super powered "Days of Our Lives" or "young and the Restless". Strangely this only really seems the case with Superman and almost no one else. Yes, you have Spider-Man fans still arguing over his marriage/romantic status, but even there it doesn't seem to have a complete and utter stranglehold over the character to the degree it has Superman. With other characters, yes there are discussions of character's love lives and significant others,but it seems lately somehow, every conversation comes back to which "ship" is superior/inferior/ sexist etc.


Now, I'm not going to pretend the upcoming set up with a married Superman with a son doesn't intrigue me. It does. Now, I wish DC Comics had the fortitude to make a serious go with this in say, 2009, or even earlier, you know, WHEN that particular incarnation of Superman WAS native to his continuity, rather than pissing off fans of Nuperman and just dropping it all willy nilly into the current continuity, but I'm willing to give it all an honest shot, especially since it looks to be a short term try out and set up and that Nu Superman will eventually return somehow, whether its 6 months, a year or two years from now.

However, when we get back to Nuperman as the main Superman, I hope instead of tossing him back into a relationship with Wonder Woman, or even starting to build up to a relationship with his Lois Lane, or even a relationship with Lana, or ANY romantic relationship, that we instead just work on defining Superman on his own terms for say, the next five years and not join him at the hip with a signifigant other? I mean, think about it, for 26 years now, he's been in some sort of exclusive relationship whether the 6 year engagement to Lois Lane, the 15 year long marriage to Lois and the 5 year long relationship with Wonder Woman. Wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air to have a Superman that ISN'T defined by whom he is romantically involved with? It's been a quarter of a century since we've had that. For a generation of readers, this would be something entirely new.


Now that doesn't mean we have Superman dating random people and "turn him into Tony Stark" as some of us here like to bring up when I talk about unhinging him from a permanent relationship. I frankly wouldn't mind if for a couple years we just focus on Superman the Action hero. Superman the adventurer, Superman the social crusader, Superman the Sci-Fi explorer and leave romance and romantic relationships out of the equation nearly entirely, and when that is eventually brought in, just put it in it's proper place as just a small aspect among others to add "spice" or "seasoning" to his life. To round him out....not to completely dominate and overwhelm the character to the point that once again becomes his core defining element and characteristic.


That also doesn't mean Lois Lane gets dumped or thrown away or ignored. I want to see a defining and building of Superman's cast, including Lois Lane. There were attempts early on in the New 52 by George Perez and others to give the Planet and his cast, including Lois it's own voice and their own lives separate from Superman/Clark, yet still tying back to him ultimately.


The New 52 was an opportunity to get back to that for awhile. His (possible) return would be a perfect second chance to go for that direction. Leave the "romantic endgame" stuff for elseworlds, limited out of continuity stories and potential futures. That sort of stuff works for other media like television and the movies which have a limited run and designed to have an "ending". In the comics, which is meant to be an open ended proposition, it ultimately can be harmful and detrimental to the mythos and the stories.



A Superman defined by his deeds and exploits and not by who he is or isn't sleeping with worked from 1938-1989 and honestly it's what the character needs now. There's a reason it worked for half a century.



A Superman in a long term committed relationship was fun and worthwhile to explore,but it's time to take a long break from that.


Time to cut back on the over use of seasoning and let the main ingredient dominate the dish once again.

[JBatmanFan05]

So what does "seasoning" have to do with Superman's romantic status?

A long time ago (30 years ago) in a Galaxy Far Far Away (Your local Comic shop/Newstand), Superman was primarily seen as an adventure/sci-fi/action character. The focus seemed to be on his feats, his battles with his astonishing foes and amazing adventures across time and space in his never ending battle for TRUTH and JUSTICE. Yeah he did have a long term ongoing on and off relationship with Lois Lane,but at the time the sun was sitting on the Pre-Crisis incarnation, he was no longer with Lois Lane and Clark Kent was dating (gasp!) Lana Lang, and it was actually pretty hot and heavy (for the early 80's that is).

Don't remember that? No? Well, you'd be forgiven, as at the time, Superman's romantic life was just a small aspect of the character's adventures/existence and wasn't the main focus of his stories.Kind of like a seasoning or an ingredient in a very varied and robust dish. It added flavor to the stew,but never overwhelmed the direction or the overall stories. It was just one aspect of many.


... I am a SUPERMAN fan first and foremost and I read his adventures for...well, adventures of the greatest damned hero ever created....but I think most agree that first and foremost we read Superman comics for Superman...and not for who he is, or isn't dating.

...The status of Superman's romantic life and arguments of the virtues of one relationship over another have taken such a stranglehold on the character and frankly it's hurting him and is causing too much division in his fan base. We are losing sight of Superman the Action/sci-fi/fantasy character and he's being overwhelmed by Superman, the romantic male lead of a Soap opera, almost a Super powered "Days of Our Lives" or "young and the Restless". Strangely this only really seems the case with Superman and almost no one else.


....Now that doesn't mean we have Superman dating random people and "turn him into Tony Stark" as some of us here like to bring up when I talk about unhinging him from a permanent relationship. I frankly wouldn't mind if for a couple years we just focus on Superman the Action hero. Superman the adventurer, Superman the social crusader, Superman the Sci-Fi explorer and leave romance and romantic relationships out of the equation nearly entirely, and when that is eventually brought in, just put it in it's proper place as just a small aspect among others to add "spice" or "seasoning" to his life. To round him out....not to completely dominate and overwhelm the character to the point that once again becomes his core defining element and characteristic.


That also doesn't mean Lois Lane gets dumped or thrown away or ignored. I want to see a defining and building of Superman's cast, including Lois Lane...

A Superman defined by his deeds and exploits and not by who he is or isn't sleeping with worked from 1938-1989 and honestly it's what the character needs now. There's a reason it worked for half a century.

...A Superman in a long term committed relationship was fun and worthwhile to explore,but it's time to take a long break from that.

Time to cut back on the over use of seasoning and let the main ingredient dominate the dish once again.

This a post of the year candidate manofsteel. I edited down the post to the stuff I really agree with.

It's this simple to me, the solution:
1) Relationships don't overwhelm the direction or the overall stories of Superman (just keep it to "seasoning"). I never really realized how dead right you are that Superman's love life has been hurting the character in its overemphasis.
2) The seasoning should should Lois and Lana (and maybe Lori Lemaris), because he really cannot even come close to even appearing to be to some fans like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne or Peter Parker.


I always now view everything about Superman from the lens of the ebbs & flows of the "Marvelization" of Superman (whereas Batman is forever haunted by his Millerization (Marvelization isn't an issue for Batman as he had a good deal of "Marvel" built into his character already)). John Byrne kicked it off and it was not ALL bad all the time (Byrne saved Lex Luthor and connected the titles more, good stories, helped many supporting cast characters). But a lot of it, at a philosophical and story fundamental level, was wrong for Superman and Superman comics. And overemphasizing Supes' love life was an intended result of the "Marvelization" of Superman, make him "more relatable." And it has to be severely reigned in now. DC did the right thing in ending the marriage (and I say this as someone who really wants pre-FP Supes back, but changed).

[Last Son of Krypton]

Too much text, manofsteel1979. Too much text.

I'm partially agree. Yesterday, I talked about my initial desire to have an aromantic Superman for at least 10-15 years just to focus all the writers/editors effort in defining the character as individual. He needs it.

As for the shippers war... I don't think it's a new thing. Superman is shippers material since the Silver-Age and his stories have become more and more Soap-Opera-ish after the 2nd half of the 70s. Read the old letter columns to see the shippers war mainly between Lois fans and Lana fans.

[Agniwolf]

So what does "seasoning" have to do with Superman's romantic status?

A long time ago (30 years ago) in a Galaxy Far Far Away (Your local Comic shop/Newstand), Superman was primarily seen as an adventure/sci-fi/action character. The focus seemed to be on his feats, his battles with his astonishing foes and amazing adventures across time and space in his never ending battle for TRUTH and JUSTICE. Yeah he did have a long term ongoing on and off relationship with Lois Lane,but at the time the sun was sitting on the Pre-Crisis incarnation, he was no longer with Lois Lane and Clark Kent was dating (gasp!) Lana Lang, and it was actually pretty hot and heavy (for the early 80's that is).

Don't remember that? No? Well, you'd be forgiven, as at the time, Superman's romantic life was just a small aspect of the character's adventures/existence and wasn't the main focus of his stories.Kind of like a seasoning or an ingredient in a very varied and robust dish. It added flavor to the stew,but never overwhelmed the direction or the overall stories. It was just one aspect of many.


Fast forward to recent history. You still have stories focused on adventures and battles etc...but now, sometimes among fan discussion the discourse and the stories themselves there has been a change. Now it is very common for things to come down to one question.

"Lois Lane or Wonder Woman?"

On one side, You have certain vocal fans of the Lois and Superman relationship who refuse to acknowledge or give time to a Superman featuring Wonder Woman as his love interest, automatically labeling him a "jerk" or a "bully" or the ever popular "Not My Superman!" simply because he hasn't "saved" himself for his "one true love Lois Lane" and even use feminism to bolster their dislike of the couple by implying sexism and other nefarious things at work, and even going so far as to implying if you dare like said relationship, you are a sexist yourself and should be ashamed of yourself for having even dared have a different preferrence.

On the other, you have certain very vocal fans of the Superman and Wonder Woman relationship who feel that it's "their" turn to have their preferred "ship" validated and made the main stream in all versions of the character, many of which have some level of dislike of Lois Lane ranging from ambivalence to white hot hatred , who point to the higher sales of the title that starred them as proof of it's superiority over the traditonal, and similarly have no interest whatsoever in reading a Superman who would ever look at Lois Lane as a possible love interest and refuse to read any Superman comic going forward that doesn't prominently feature the "power couple" as the be all end all.

Most of us, I feel fall within the middle. I have not made it secret my preference for Lois and Clark (or Clois to use the shipper vernacular) and my distaste to how quickly and haphazardly the whole WW/Supes thing came about,but when push comes to shove in the overall scheme of things, I am a SUPERMAN fan first and foremost and I read his adventures for...well, adventures of the greatest damned hero ever created. I know there are some that prefer SM/WW and disagree with me in that context but I think most agree that first and foremost we read Superman comics for Superman...and not for who he is, or isn't dating.Ultimately we just want good stories and don't give a damn about the rest.

I'm not the only one here in recent days who have made the same observation and drawn the same conclusion. The status of Superman's romantic life and arguments of the virtues of one relationship over another have taken such a stranglehold on the character and frankly it's hurting him and is causing too much division in his fan base. We are losing sight of Superman the Action/sci-fi/fantasy character and he's being overwhelmed by Superman, the romantic male lead of a Soap opera, almost a Super powered "Days of Our Lives" or "young and the Restless". Strangely this only really seems the case with Superman and almost no one else. Yes, you have Spider-Man fans still arguing over his marriage/romantic status, but even there it doesn't seem to have a complete and utter stranglehold over the character to the degree it has Superman. With other characters, yes there are discussions of character's love lives and significant others,but it seems lately somehow, every conversation comes back to which "ship" is superior/inferior/ sexist etc.


Now, I'm not going to pretend the upcoming set up with a married Superman with a son doesn't intrigue me. It does. Now, I wish DC Comics had the fortitude to make a serious go with this in say, 2009, or even earlier, you know, WHEN that particular incarnation of Superman WAS native to his continuity, rather than pissing off fans of Nuperman and just dropping it all willy nilly into the current continuity, but I'm willing to give it all an honest shot, especially since it looks to be a short term try out and set up and that Nu Superman will eventually return somehow, whether its 6 months, a year or two years from now.

However, when we get back to Nuperman as the main Superman, I hope instead of tossing him back into a relationship with Wonder Woman, or even starting to build up to a relationship with his Lois Lane, or even a relationship with Lana, or ANY romantic relationship, that we instead just work on defining Superman on his own terms for say, the next five years and not join him at the hip with a signifigant other? I mean, think about it, for 26 years now, he's been in some sort of exclusive relationship whether the 6 year engagement to Lois Lane, the 15 year long marriage to Lois and the 5 year long relationship with Wonder Woman. Wouldn't it be a breath of fresh air to have a Superman that ISN'T defined by whom he is romantically involved with? It's been a quarter of a century since we've had that. For a generation of readers, this would be something entirely new.


Now that doesn't mean we have Superman dating random people and "turn him into Tony Stark" as some of us here like to bring up when I talk about unhinging him from a permanent relationship. I frankly wouldn't mind if for a couple years we just focus on Superman the Action hero. Superman the adventurer, Superman the social crusader, Superman the Sci-Fi explorer and leave romance and romantic relationships out of the equation nearly entirely, and when that is eventually brought in, just put it in it's proper place as just a small aspect among others to add "spice" or "seasoning" to his life. To round him out....not to completely dominate and overwhelm the character to the point that once again becomes his core defining element and characteristic.


That also doesn't mean Lois Lane gets dumped or thrown away or ignored. I want to see a defining and building of Superman's cast, including Lois Lane. There were attempts early on in the New 52 by George Perez and others to give the Planet and his cast, including Lois it's own voice and their own lives separate from Superman/Clark, yet still tying back to him ultimately.


The New 52 was an opportunity to get back to that for awhile. His (possible) return would be a perfect second chance to go for that direction. Leave the "romantic endgame" stuff for elseworlds, limited out of continuity stories and potential futures. That sort of stuff works for other media like television and the movies which have a limited run and designed to have an "ending". In the comics, which is meant to be an open ended proposition, it ultimately can be harmful and detrimental to the mythos and the stories.



A Superman defined by his deeds and exploits and not by who he is or isn't sleeping with worked from 1938-1989 and honestly it's what the character needs now. There's a reason it worked for half a century.



A Superman in a long term committed relationship was fun and worthwhile to explore,but it's time to take a long break from that.


Time to cut back on the over use of seasoning and let the main ingredient dominate the dish once again.

This a post of the year candidate manofsteel. I edited down the post to the stuff I really agree with.

It's this simple to me, the solution:
1) Relationships don't overwhelm the direction or the overall stories of Superman (just keep it to "seasoning"). I never really realized how dead right you are that Superman's love life has been hurting the character in its overemphasis.
2) The seasoning should should Lois and Lana (and maybe Lori Lemaris), because he really cannot even come close to even appearing to be to some fans like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne or Peter Parker.

while i do agree with manofsteel and your jabatman first solution i do have to disagree with the second

thing is doesnt matter if it is lois, or lana, or diana, or shay, or vixen

or
or
or
or

end of the day what i really want is good superman stories, if it places my prefered ship good, if not they are good stories. what makes me sad and willing to drop the books is not the ship per se, it is the awful way that the current superman which im am a fan being replaced and its not even a hard reboot, it is a low kick by placing someone that already told his tale and will retell by overtaking the world of the current one. he will do what darkseid and so many other villains were not able to accomplish withou even breaking a sweat, in fact i may have been more prone to accept it if a hard reboot was the case, a totally new superman with a totally new earth and a totally new origin from zero. yes it should be just a seasoning, but putting sugar on the steak and salt on the candy is not the kind i was expecting

[Lairston]

Oh yeah. This a thousand times over. I miss the emphasis on adventure over romance.

The nice thing about the Lois relationship over the WW relationship is there's a break from it when he's finally in an adventure(and if you don't care about the relationship you can skip past it) unless its because she's been kidnapped. With WW, she's involved in that too since she's a superhero. Like in the animated movies since I've skipped the nu52 era until recently, they have to have their looks at each other before/after a battle which gets a groan from me. (Sorta the same groan I gave in this weeks issue. lol ) I don't care about their love lives in the middle of a battle. Go take care of doomsday or Darkseid...

[Francisco]

while i do agree with manofsteel and your jabatman first solution i do have to disagree with the second

thing is doesnt matter if it is lois, or lana, or diana, or shay, or vixen

or
or
or
or

end of the day what i really want is good superman stories, if it places my prefered ship good, if not they are good stories. what makes me sad and willing to drop the books is not the ship per se, it is the awful way that the current superman which im am a fan being replaced and its not even a hard reboot, it is a low kick by placing someone that already told his tale and will retell by overtaking the world of the current one. he will do what darkseid and so many other villains were not able to accomplish withou even breaking a sweat, in fact i may have been more prone to accept it if a hard reboot was the case, a totally new superman with a totally new earth and a totally new origin from zero. yes it should be just a seasoning, but putting sugar on the steak and salt on the candy is not the kind i was expecting

Brother you hit the nail right in the head.

[beetee]

Absolutely agree on the "Adventures of" aspect. I'd keep Supes single. I mean if/when Nuperman comes back, he's still in his mid-twenties right? He should show a little variety when it came to relationships. Have him " Kirk" around a little. Love and adventure didn't hurt a certain starship captain did it?

[manofsteel1979]

Too much text, manofsteel1979. Too much text.

I'm partially agree. Yesterday, I talked about my initial desire to have an aromantic Superman for at least 10-15 years just to focus all the writers/editors effort in defining the character as individual. He needs it

Exactly. Sorry for all the text!

As for the shippers war... I don't think it's a new thing. Superman is shippers material since the Silver-Age and his stories have become more and more Soap-Opera-ish after the 2nd half of the 70s. Read the old letter columns to see the shippers war mainly between Lois fans and Lana fans.

Yes it has always existed to some degree but it was never this divisive or outright nasty as it gets here now at times, and back then it wasn't the driving force behind everything that it feels like now. Of course the letters pages are a different animal than message boards,but I doubt you'd have people trying to derail every single thread on the board to push their preferred "ship" as some sort of social justice cause. Yeah I know Lana Lang and Wonder Woman are two totally different characters with different variables,but I think today's shipping wars are a symptom of the gradual steering of Superman from Action hero to Superman the Soap Operatic romantic male lead.

[JBatmanFan05]

I edited my post to add:
I always now view everything about Superman from the lens of the ebbs & flows of the "Marvelization" of Superman (whereas Batman is forever haunted by his Millerization (Marvelization isn't an issue for Batman as he had a good deal of "Marvel" built into his character already)). John Byrne kicked it off and it was not ALL bad all the time (Byrne saved Lex Luthor and connected the titles more, good stories, helped many supporting cast characters). But a lot of it, at a philosophical and story fundamental level, was wrong for Superman and Superman comics. And overemphasizing Supes' love life was an intended result of the "Marvelization" of Superman, to make him "more relatable." And it has to be severely reigned in now. DC did the right thing in ending the marriage (and I say this as someone who really wants pre-FP or pre-COIE Supes back, but changed/merged and not the same).

[DieHard200904]

I don't mind Superman flirting around, personally, but I do feel that if he should really get glued down to somebody, that's what non-canon stories similar to the Elseworlds are for. The big thing is that he should handle himself sometimes and he should be the star of his own stories. If he's young, he doesn't need canon marriage as an ongoing fictional character, IMO.

[manofsteel1979]

while i do agree with manofsteel and your jabatman first solution i do have to disagree with the second

thing is doesnt matter if it is lois, or lana, or diana, or shay, or vixen

or
or
or
or

end of the day what i really want is good superman stories, if it places my prefered ship good, if not they are good stories. what makes me sad and willing to drop the books is not the ship per se, it is the awful way that the current superman which im am a fan being replaced and its not even a hard reboot, it is a low kick by placing someone that already told his tale and will retell by overtaking the world of the current one. he will do what darkseid and so many other villains were not able to accomplish withou even breaking a sweat, in fact i may have been more prone to accept it if a hard reboot was the case, a totally new superman with a totally new earth and a totally new origin from zero. yes it should be just a seasoning, but putting sugar on the steak and salt on the candy is not the kind i was expecting

The upcoming thing with SUPERDAD and all that is a symptom of this shift in focus. I mean to this day there are people who regard Superdad as the "real" Superman simply due to the fact he's with the "right" or "destined"love interest. It doesn't matter if he's not wearing the classic suit (he's not) or if he has any meaningful connections with the existing supporting cast (he doesn't) or that he can use the name "Clark Kent" (he won't be able to without a HUGE duex ex machina to explain it). It all doesn't matter because in these people's minds as long as he's dating/married to Lois Lane, then THAT makes him automatically the "authentic" or "real" Superman, while completely ignoring the fact that when it comes to THIS particular continuity, he isn't. They are either blind to that fact or are willing to take anything as long as their "ship" thrives.

Conversely, I can guarantee if or when Nuperman returns as the main Superman, if there is even a hint they are turning away permanently from the WW/Supes "ship" and start hinting at a relationship in the future with Lois, a very vocal minority on the other side will refuse to read or support any new Superman stories, even if otherwise they are great stories and are overall superior to what we had most of the last 5 years, and they will make sure to repeatidly let us know that fact.

Meanwhile in the mid 80's, I doubt anyone was boycotting Superman books because Clark Kent was dating Lana Lang in the present day. In the current climate, and with the emphasis changing over the last 25 or so years, I would imagine the vitriol would nearly be the same.

[DieHard200904]

while i do agree with manofsteel and your jabatman first solution i do have to disagree with the second

thing is doesnt matter if it is lois, or lana, or diana, or shay, or vixen

or
or
or
or

end of the day what i really want is good superman stories, if it places my prefered ship good, if not they are good stories. what makes me sad and willing to drop the books is not the ship per se, it is the awful way that the current superman which im am a fan being replaced and its not even a hard reboot, it is a low kick by placing someone that already told his tale and will retell by overtaking the world of the current one. he will do what darkseid and so many other villains were not able to accomplish withou even breaking a sweat, in fact i may have been more prone to accept it if a hard reboot was the case, a totally new superman with a totally new earth and a totally new origin from zero. yes it should be just a seasoning, but putting sugar on the steak and salt on the candy is not the kind i was expecting

I would argue that you can satisfy Superman being in certain relationships by doing them out of canon (alternate universe or Elseworlds stories) because that is very different from doing the relationships in canon. You have a limited continuity that way, and you also don't have to worry about the burden of having one writer after another, changing between who wants it and who wants to tear it down. You have a self-contained story or arc that deals with it.

[manofsteel1979]

I edited my post to add:
I always now view everything about Superman from the lens of the ebbs & flows of the "Marvelization" of Superman (whereas Batman is forever haunted by his Millerization (Marvelization isn't an issue for Batman as he had a good deal of "Marvel" built into his character already)). John Byrne kicked it off and it was not ALL bad all the time (Byrne saved Lex Luthor and connected the titles more, good stories, helped many supporting cast characters). But a lot of it, at a philosophical and story fundamental level, was wrong for Superman and Superman comics. And overemphasizing Supes' love life was an intended result of the "Marvelization" of Superman, make him "more relatable." And it has to be severely reigned in now. DC did the right thing in ending the marriage (and I say this as someone who really wants pre-FP or pre-COIE Supes back, but changed/merged and not the same).

You are right for the most part, especially the "marvelization" part.


There IS room for the "shipping" stuff. Other media like TV shows and movies which have a defined beginning middle and end you can pair Superman with Lois and get them married, having children etc. You can have him do the same with Wonder Woman or Lana or even Batman there as well if you want to go that route. In comics there are Elseworlds, alternate stories Like KINGDOM COME and THE DARK KNIGHT saga, and alternate futures like FUTURE'S END and things like that, or "ending" stories Like WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW, or alternate earth tales like the Mr and Mrs Superman Earth 2 tales in the 70's and 80's. Main earth main continuity Superman, which is supposed to be an open ended proposition, his love life, whatever form that takes should be largely inconsequential to the big picture of the ongoing narrative.When it is the driving force and motivation of the stories, you have a big problem.

For instance, I never liked any story that inferred if Lois Lane died, he would quit being Superman or (even worse) turn evil. That to me just proves you just don't get Superman if you think that his girlfriend or wife is the core of who he is and without her, he's no longer Superman. He'd mourn her of course,but he'd carry on. To think otherwise is a disservice not only to Superman, but to Lois as well.

[Kuwagaton]

You'd think a single Superman would be better in the way of exploring other cast members and building up a strong supporting cast, but it isn't what it had been at all. Supporting characters used to have a supporting cast of their own, even. If they bring New 52 back, yeah, they should not concern themselves with relationships for a bit to introduce a new generation of supporting cast members if they aren't going to use who they have.

[DieHard200904]

You are right for the most part, especially the "marvelization" part.


There IS room for the "shipping" stuff. Other media like TV shows and movies which have a defined beginning middle and end you can pair Superman with Lois and get them married, having children etc. You can have him do the same with Wonder Woman or Lana or even Batman there as well if you want to go that route. In comics there are Elseworlds, alternate stories Like KINGDOM COME and THE DARK KNIGHT saga, and alternate futures like FUTURE'S END and things like that, or "ending" stories Like WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW, or alternate earth tales like the Mr and Mrs Superman Earth 2 tales in the 70's and 80's. Main earth main continuity Superman, which is supposed to be an open ended proposition, his love life, whatever form that takes should be largely inconsequential to the big picture of the ongoing narrative.When it is the driving force and motivation of the stories, you have a big problem.

For instance, I never liked any story that inferred if Lois Lane died, he would quit being Superman or (even worse) turn evil. That to me just proves you just don't get Superman if you think that his girlfriend or wife is the core of who he is and without her, he's no longer Superman. He'd mourn her of course,but he'd carry on. To think otherwise is a disservice not only to Superman, but to Lois as well.

Nobody should feel respect for a hero that has a love interest as a crutch. It all goes back down to the foundation of what it means to be inspirational. After all, let's see, most of us regular real-life people have to deal with a loss of people in our family that we lose, but still have to keep on being decent regardless. How does a Superman doing a heel-face turn feel inspirational? It doesn't. What does feel good is seeing a hero who will not quit in spite of something bad happening, or who simply, "Does what we can't". Because that is exactly the point of Superman, he is inspirational because he does exactly what we can't do, whether it is emotional, physical, etc, and he doesn't give up.

Having Superman be as he was in the Silver Age or Bronze Age would irritate a lot of people, but it makes him canonically not so shackled in the narrative. I get the bad impression though that the parent company, WB, does not get it, and will continue to push some relationships for SUperman. To that I say, well, fine, have him flirt or something, but don't marry him off, and keep in mind that his story is not supposed to have an ending.