Time to ease back on the seasoning: The case for a single and singular Superman

[manduck37]

As much as I hate to bring up a sore name on the Superman boards, keeping the romantic story elements to a minimum seems to work well enough for Batman. Sure, you have some Bruce/Selina shippers but ultimately people love the action/adventure nature of Batman's stories. No reason we can't do more of that with Superman. Just have some fun sci-fi adventures for a while. Don't worry about who he's with. I certainly don't mind romance in a comic. I actually can enjoy it and find it makes the characters more believable for me to have them pursue relationships. Though I don't think it should be a primary focus of the story. Really, Superman appears in a book called Action Comics. Action is right there in the name. I'd keep any relationship focused stories in relationship geared books. Want to see Superman's relationship with Lois and their son? Then keep the Lois and Clark book around. Want to see Superman's relationship with Wonder Woman? Keep the SM/WW book around. Use the couple books for romance with some adventure. Use the other books for adventure with a little romance. Shift the focus based on the target audience for the book.

[DieHard200904]

If indeed Superdad and Son catch on and the books sell well or improve for the long term, then yes there's a possibility Nuperman doesn't return or he's brought back to merge with Superdad. That's a risk of this direction, but if it means healthy sales for the franchise going forward, that can only be a good thing. It may suck for Nuperman devotees, but DC has to do what will mean more money.

Personally though I think sales won't be much better ultimately. They will spike and then settle down, and Nuperman' s return will be the next event to boost sales.

I think DC hasn't learned the lesson of sucking a Superman into really large Crossover Events, they will probably give the same treatment regardless of which version it is, which sucks, but we can't really expect much from this regime, unless someone either has an epiphany or they change who is in charge of Superman.

[superduperman]

As much as I hate to bring up a sore name on the Superman boards, keeping the romantic story elements to a minimum seems to work well enough for Batman. Sure, you have some Bruce/Selina shippers but ultimately people love the action/adventure nature of Batman's stories. No reason we can't do more of that with Superman. Just have some fun sci-fi adventures for a while. Don't worry about who he's with. I certainly don't mind romance in a comic. I actually can enjoy it and find it makes the characters more believable for me to have them pursue relationships. Though I don't think it should be a primary focus of the story. Really, Superman appears in a book called Action Comics. Action is right there in the name. I'd keep any relationship focused stories in relationship geared books. Want to see Superman's relationship with Lois and their son? Then keep the Lois and Clark book around. Want to see Superman's relationship with Wonder Woman? Keep the SM/WW book around. Use the couple books for romance with some adventure. Use the other books for adventure with a little romance. Shift the focus based on the target audience for the book.

To be fair, Batman also has a larger supporting cast than Superman does. Which means in order to fit everyone in, you kind of have to keep the shipping to a minimum. Having him hook up with Selina just makes things easier and shuts everybody up long enough to actually fit everything in.

[misslane]

To be fair, Batman also has a larger supporting cast than Superman does. Which means in order to fit everyone in, you kind of have to keep the shipping to a minimum. Having him hook up with Selina just makes things easier and shuts everybody up long enough to actually fit everything in.

I also think that what works for one character doesn't work or may not be suitable for another. I like that the members of the Trinity complement each other and have important contrasts. Clark's love life should differ from Bruce's, and part of the reason Bruce's romances don't feature the same way is that he doesn't have more typical or monogamous relationships. What's fascinating about Superman is that despite his being an alien, he's actually the more human of the Trinity. His having a more stable love life with one woman being his focus as either a crush, a girlfriend, or wife suits him and says something compelling about the kind of guy he is.

[manduck37]

To be fair, Batman also has a larger supporting cast than Superman does. Which means in order to fit everyone in, you kind of have to keep the shipping to a minimum. Having him hook up with Selina just makes things easier and shuts everybody up long enough to actually fit everything in.

Superman actually has a fairly large supporting cast as well. Especially back in the triangle era, most of which hasn't been used lately. You have the Planet staff, Smallville, various Metropolis personalities, people in the science community like Cadmus or Dr. Veritas, Supergirl and Superboy, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Plenty to work with that could easily rival the Bat-family. Also, there are tons of Batman stories that feature him going out on his own and never touch his supporting cast. So they certainly aren't trying to fit things in around his large supporting cast all the time. It happens in some big team up books, like Eternal. It doesn't happen all the time. If shipping was a big deal for Batman, like it seems to be for Superman, that supporting cast would be pushed aside in favor of the ship. Granted, one of things that makes Superman different from Batman is that he's seeking a relationship. Bruce's issues certainly play into his character and he prefers only to have superficial relationships to keep up appearance as a billionaire playboy. Superman semms more interested in the long term, so to speak. I'm not actually trying to compare Batman and Superman or say that what works for one character works for all characters. Just that the focus can be shifted from the romantic aspects to adventure and a character can still be popular. It certainly worked for Superman in the past too.

[Tayswift]

Superman actually has a fairly large supporting cast as well. Especially back in the triangle era, most of which hasn't been used lately. You have the Planet staff, Smallville, various Metropolis personalities, people in the science community like Cadmus or Dr. Veritas, Supergirl and Superboy, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Plenty to work with that could easily rival the Bat-family. Also, there are tons of Batman stories that feature him going out on his own and never touch his supporting cast. So they certainly aren't trying to fit things in around his large supporting cast all the time. It happens in some big team up books, like Eternal. It doesn't happen all the time. If shipping was a big deal for Batman, like it seems to be for Superman, that supporting cast would be pushed aside in favor of the ship. Granted, one of things that makes Superman different from Batman is that he's seeking a relationship. Bruce's issues certainly play into his character and he prefers only to have superficial relationships to keep up appearance as a billionaire playboy. Superman semms more interested in the long term, so to speak. I'm not actually trying to compare Batman and Superman or say that what works for one character works for all characters. Just that the focus can be shifted from the romantic aspects to adventure and a character can still be popular. It certainly worked for Superman in the past too.

this isn't even true. Triangle era had the romance going on and a very rich supporting cast.

[manofsteel1979]

this isn't even true. Triangle era had the romance going on and a very rich supporting cast.

But even then it was one element in the overall narrative. In fact one of the drawbacks of the later triangle era particularly around 1996 or so, the cast actually almost pushed Superman out of his own books it got so large. Of course post- triangle era the pendulum swung way in the opposite direction to the point that by the early to mid 2000s there was almost no supporting cast to speak of and that issue occurs to this day and will unfortunately continue with REBIRTH, but we will see.

Of course the difference was you had 4 ongoing titles interlinked telling the same ongoing story, so you did have room for say, giving subplots to say Jimmy and Perry and of course the Lois and Clark relationship while still having room to have the action and adventure aspects given their due.

Since 2006 we've really only had two ongoing Superman books with one or two team up titles filling out the other two slots. With Action and Superman going biweekly you are essentially returning to the format of a weekly Superman book, just with a more specific story structure for each book.

It'll be interesting if we see an attempt to build on the cast and juggle the family stuff and the action. I think the format along with the quality of stories are going to determine whether this next phase of Superman sinks or floats more than even what Superman the books star. Interesting times.

[manduck37]

this isn't even true. Triangle era had the romance going on and a very rich supporting cast.

I think you misunderstood me. I never said that the triangle era didn't have romance. I said the triangle era had a larger supporting cast and that you can find a balance for all these things. I was actually stating that a larger supporting cast doesn't mean you take romance out of the book. You don't need to make room for the cast at the expense of everything else, which is what we saw in the triangle era. If anything, the triangle era actually went the farthest with the romance, having Lois and Clark get engaged and married.

[The World]

If indeed Superdad and Son catch on and the books sell well or improve for the long term, then yes there's a possibility Nuperman doesn't return or he's brought back to merge with Superdad. That's a risk of this direction, but if it means healthy sales for the franchise going forward, that can only be a good thing. It may suck for Nuperman devotees, but DC has to do what will mean more money.

Personally though I think sales won't be much better ultimately. They will spike and then settle down, and Nuperman' s return will be the next event to boost sales.

I actually think that this is what Kenan is there for. If Pre-Flashpoint Supes fails they'll have Chinese Superman step up to the plate with another big relaunch, if he fails THEN they'll bring back Post-Flashpoint Superman. I think that really what we're seeing right now is just a shuffling of idea's at DC about what to do with the Man of Steel.

[Tayswift]

I think you misunderstood me. I never said that the triangle era didn't have romance. I said the triangle era had a larger supporting cast and that you can find a balance for all these things. I was actually stating that a larger supporting cast doesn't mean you take romance out of the book. You don't need to make room for the cast at the expense of everything else, which is what we saw in the triangle era. If anything, the triangle era actually went the farthest with the romance, having Lois and Clark get engaged and married.

allright, somehow writers have difficult to balance things on new 52 superman comics. writers and editors were all lost. It is probably a side effect of crossovers and last minute changes

[MeloDet]

So I haven't read through the whole post yet, but I can already tell that im probably going to agree with it based on this line.

A long time ago (30 years ago) in a Galaxy Far Far Away (Your local Comic shop/Newstand), Superman was primarily seen as an adventure/sci-fi/action character.

Superman's adventurous side is hands down one of the biggest things that's been missing for these past years (imo at least). I honestly think it's a big reason why I like N52 Superman so much; his "swagger" (as we've often termed it) seems all but tailor made for more adventurous stories. Anyway I'll read the rest of the post before I say any more, but you can definitely put me down for a single Superman going out and having (and enjoying!) crazy adventures.

[sunofdarkchild]

I'm against the idea of banning romance outright. People complain about restrictions imposed by editorial like Supes being the only Kryptonian or limiting his powers, but those are precisely the kind of restrictions that force writers to get creative. Removing the ability to use one of the most basic elements of literature and the human condition is a thousand times more stifling than removing the ability to use certain toys ever could be. Could you imagine Indiana Jones' great adventures without romance? The best adventure stories almost always have some romance to them.

I do agree that a switch in emphasis may very well be called for. Superman doesn't have to be like The Princess Bride where the whole story revolves around the romance all the time. It is a minor part of stories like Indiana Jones and Star Wars. In comics especially romance needs to build slowly. That was their biggest mistake with Superman/Wonder Woman, just making them a thing like that with barely any buildup. One of the things that made the post-crisis Lois and Clark relationship work was that it never at any point felt rushed or unnatural. While there was clearly something their, they both dated other people at first (Cat Grant and Gangbuster), and it was about 2 years into the reboot before they started dating, and another 2 or so years before they became engaged (then another 6 years before the marriage). Unfortunately, in this day and age, no one take the time to develop relationships like than anymore when writing comics. Just like no one takes the time to actually engage in world-building.

It's a weird thing, that storytelling has become so decompressed but what passes for development is given less and less panel space.

But that get's back to the main problem-the people writing the stories and the ones twisting their arms to do this but not that and make things happen now.

[edwardsdv]

This is honestly the #1 reason I look forward to the new Superboy. A 10 year old has no time for dirty disgusting girls.

[darkseidpwns]

Agreed, every time I step in to these forums I see the 2 rival shipping threads at the top, it depresses the hell out to me, you cant even talk about Superman (Nuper or dad) without involving his love life. Can writers write stories about something else for once? and can fans talk about something else? it's either pathetic gimmicks/events or romance when it comes to Superman for the last 5 years. Partly I think Superman fans are themselves to blame as well due to insecurities over Batman being more alpha and more hot or whatever and they want Superman to be seen the same way

Enough is enough though, I want to see the return of Hank Henshaw in full glory and a new story with Dominus plus Mongul being the major threat that he once was. Superman office should focus on that and less on turd romances.

[HsssH]

This whole thing is messed up in my opinion. Superman would be missing for days/weeks in some story arcs and his relationship with Lois would stay perfectly fine. Or how he went to Krypton for a year or so during that pre-Flashpoint arc and Lois was okay husband, see you next year, maybe? Its just absurd how DC kept him in relationship and didn't do anything interesting with it.

So I can see some reasoning why in new52 they decided to go with WW, she is a god so she would understand Superman going on long journeys and all that. Problem is that again, they did absolutely nothing with it and there really wasn't much reasoning for why exactly they are together now asides of "you saw them together in some elseword stories, so here we give you the real deal!".

So that didn't work either, whats next? Lets bring back Lois with kid and give everyone superpowers so they all can be superheroes and writers don't have to do anything with their family and relationship again.

Its just mind blowing how DC is so fixated on having Superman in relationship and then not doing anything with that relationship.