A message to all DC fans - go and watch Civil War... (read what I have to say)

[The Kid]

Hehe... haha... and I thought my jokes were bad.

The Joker is an antagonist and people loved him. You're misunderstanding my point right now. I'm saying that funny villains are characters that people like so Suicide Squad will not have the same problem as BvS

Batman was not likable. Straight up. In the Nolan and Donner movies, people didn't have that problem with Batman and Superman. They were both very liked by the general audience which played a major role in the success of those franchises.

Superman shouldn't be boring. That's the same criticism people had for Captain American but luckily Marvel ignored that and now have turned him into an A-list superhero. WB thinking Superman is boring is why they've struggled with his character

[Lee Stone]

Fair enough. I was really engaged by it. Found it to be a fine piece of superhero cinema. I guess it just had more of what I was personally looking for than BvS.

I personally think it was just bad timing.
The average person has been waiting for a Batman/Superman team-up movie for decades.
We finally get one and the heroes are barely what the average movie-goers are familiar with.

The only thing worse would have been it featuring AzBats and Electric Superman.

At least Batman is close to public perceptions due to the Arkham Asylum games.
But Dark Superman still has a ways to go to become what people think of when they think of Superman.

[Outside_85]

The Joker is an antagonist and people loved him. You're misunderstanding my point right now. I'm saying that funny villains are characters that people like so Suicide Squad will not have the same problem as BvS.

Because at this point you don't know if one of them turns out to be a superpowered child molester.

My point is that being funny is not an excuse to like an otherwise horrible monster.

Batman was not likable. Straight up. In the Nolan and Donner movies, people didn't have that problem with Batman and Superman. They were both very liked by the general audience which played a major role in the success of those franchises.

You may want to go back and check the reactions, because people quite liked Batfleck, some even going as far as calling him the best portrayal of the comicbook character thats been so far. And Donner... that was over 30 years ago.

Superman shouldn't be boring.
That's the same criticism people had for Captain American but luckily Marvel ignored that and now have turned him into an A-list superhero.
WB thinking Superman is boring is why they've struggled with his character

Have you read a Superman book in the last decade or two?
Because if people remembered it, he had a terrible 1991 movie. And no, they haven't turned him into an A-list character, they managed to restore him to that level... which DC hasn't managed with Aquaman yet inspite of being in the same position longer and with more attempts.
Except they haven't. The appeal of Superman is that he is a human from small town Kansas who just happens to also be the last member of an incredibly powerful race of aliens. The appeal of Superman is that he could literally be the guy living next door, but you'd never know who he also was.

[My Two Cents]

I saw Captain America: Civil War yesterday - and I'm sorry to say this but it absolutely SHAT on Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice. From a great height too. Marvel films have gotten it SO right - and DC is getting it SO wrong and it's absolutely BREAKING MY HEART.

I think they can turn it around with Suicide Squad. Wonder Woman might end up being good and Ben Affleck's Batman movie could do wonders... it's just... what worries me is Justice League. I don't wanna be a hater but I'm just finding it real difficult to put faith in Snyder.

There IS a possibility that Justice League could be awesome and make us eat our words. It may even make us look back on Batman V Superman more fondly.

The problem with BvS is that it was merely "OK". Above average at best. It really needed to be MORE.

If I was in charge of DC? I'd have done it like this -

- Start with two back to back Superman films. The first one an origin. The second one Death Of Superman.

- Then the Green Lantern film.

- After that I'd do the THIRD Superman which would be "Reign Of The Superman" and crossover Green Lantern into that.

- Two Batman films back to back. Filmed at the same time as the back to back Supermans. Introduce Robin in the second one.

- Then the Flash movie would be based on "Born To Run". Introduce Wally West and have an origin recap for Barry Allen.

- Then Cyborg and Aquaman both get one film.

- In the Wonder Woman film, put a post credits stinger introducing Wonder Girl.

So we've got everyone introduced - right?

Next - a MARTIAN MANHUNTER solo movie. Comes to Earth and observes the antics of all these heroes.

- THEN I'd do the Justice League movie

- and THEN a Teen Titans movie.

It wouldn't be UNLIKE what Marvel have done. Marvel however are all about that one superhero team - The Avengers. That's fine of course. It's obvious they do it brilliantly.

But DC have two iconic teams. Justice League and Teen Titans. They owe it to the audience - and THEMSELVES to set that up.

Of course. None of that fucking happened. Warner Bros just throw everything at the screen to see what sticks. They insist on sticking with a director - who whilst talented in his own way - shouldn't be in charge of THIS franchise. Let's face it - this needs to be their replacement for Harry Potter.
Right now? It's just not going very well. AT ALL.
It pisses me off. I've read DC all my life. Batman and Superman I've wanted to see in a film together even before shared universes were the cinematic norm. I've never read a Captain America or Iron Man comic.
Yet Captain America: Civil War moved me far more than Batman V Superman EVER did. When a film about people who I don't care about affects me more than a film about people I DO... it's just NOT good.

I implore other DC fans to drop their Marvel hatred - go and watch Civil War and BE ANNOYED that DC aren't taking care of us as well as Marvel are taking care of their fans.

WE NEED TO DEMAND THAT KIND OF FUCKING QUALITY FOR OURSELVES.

I'm really pissed off that I had to settle for second best, I really am.

I implore you to please refrain from cursing

[dragonmp93]

What exactly did Civil War get so right? That every character is a moron with a flimsy motivation? That there is no gravitas to why they are fighting? That they rely almost entirely on past movies to make this one work? That the fights are without weight? Or that for the bazzlionth time the villain of the Marvel movie is a virtual non-entity that could be killed off halfway through and we wouldn't notice or care?

BvS was the gladiator fight in the arena, Civil War was the punch up between drunks in the carpark outside.

You want quality? Go somewhere else than to Disney, because no one panders harder to the easy money than they.

spoilers:

The Bad guy, who is a normal human, won and destroyed the Avengers.

end of spoilers
Yeah, like if Superman is going to stay dead for long.

[dragonmp93]

That's kinda what I think a lot of people got wrong before they entered the cinema for BvS; thinking it was going to be like a Marvel movie.



That's how they always are in comics anyways?

If we are talking only about the New 52 reboot, then yes, you are right.

[Jim Kelly]

I'll never see any of these movies for one simple reason. Robert Downey Jr. His acting is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

I saw the CIVIL WAR movie poster today in my travels and it started me thinking "civil war" is a real oxymoron. We're at war, but we're awfully civil about it. Do the Avengers wear their best bib and tucker to the fracas?

[manofsteel1979]

I KNEW we would get one of these "DC needs to follow Marvel's playbook" threads in disguise soon as CIVIL WAR came out.

First off, I am excited to see Civil War and I am counting the days to see it, and this is someone who generally doesn't give a whit about Marvel aside from Spider-Man and some era's of the X-Men. I so far have enjoyed all the Marvel Studio's movies for what they are, which is mostly fun throw away popcorn entertainment. You go see it in the theater once or twice, enjoy the ride and then if you really like it, get the DVD and watch it again sometime later. Now stuff like WINTER SOLDIER and GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY transends that formula and tries to be timely and succeeds ,but for the most part, Marvel movies are product, and as they continue the more they feel very homogonized, corporate and manufactured to a degree to check off a check list. Ant-Man was fun but it in many ways felt like a remake of the first IRON MAN in terms of structure and filling out the "marvel requirements".


I don't want that for the DC films and I'm glad they have made a conscious decision to not go the purely formulaic route. MOS and BVS are not perfect films,but at least they do strive to be original and not to just merely try to tweak the movie to make them mere "crowd pleasers" and for me personally the positives of both films FAR outweigh the negatives. They are movies that try to say something and don't hold your hand from start to finish and inspire debate and require a willingness to actually think and analyze things and even in a way force the viewer to participate. At least that was my experience.

One thing I will say though is I think DC/Warners need to realize their approach as is, will NEVER get the instant Billion dollar numbers the Marvel movies are getting,because those movies are made in such a way to guarantee the biggest grosses possible by not deviating too much from the road traveled. I mean, when counting home sales and the grosses for MOS and for BVS (when it comes out on disc and digital that is) likely approach the 2 billion range, and just on the Box office alone both together total a Billion and a half and BVS isn't quite done. For two movies in a fledgling universe. it's pretty damn good. They need to decide whats more important,beating Marvel at Box office gross (which even when not accounting on the huge head start Marvel has is a near impossible task) or making their own path and adjusting expectations to match. Meaning, basically, start watching the budgets more carefully. There's no reason, with the story it told, BvS couldn't have been done a little more economically without sacrificing the epic nature of the film. Just work on tightening the scripts,being more certain of what you are trying to do and execute it. If BvS's budget was anywhere 50-75 million cheaper, you wouldn't see people wringing their hands calling a film that made (or will make) $850 million a disappointment or flop.

[Starchild]

Looking forward to the X-Men Apocalyspe thread.

[Ulysses]

I KNEW we would get one of these "DC needs to follow Marvel's playbook" threads in disguise soon as CIVIL WAR came out.

First off, I am excited to see Civil War and I am counting the days to see it, and this is someone who generally doesn't give a whit about Marvel aside from Spider-Man and some era's of the X-Men. I so far have enjoyed all the Marvel Studio's movies for what they are, which is mostly fun throw away popcorn entertainment. You go see it in the theater once or twice, enjoy the ride and then if you really like it, get the DVD and watch it again sometime later. Now stuff like WINTER SOLDIER and GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY transends that formula and tries to be timely and succeeds ,but for the most part, Marvel movies are product, and as they continue the more they feel very homogonized, corporate and manufactured to a degree to check off a check list. Ant-Man was fun but it in many ways felt like a remake of the first IRON MAN in terms of structure and filling out the "marvel requirements".


I don't want that for the DC films and I'm glad they have made a conscious decision to not go the purely formulaic route. MOS and BVS are not perfect films,but at least they do strive to be original and not to just merely try to tweak the movie to make them mere "crowd pleasers" and for me personally the positives of both films FAR outweigh the negatives. They are movies that try to say something and don't hold your hand from start to finish and inspire debate and require a willingness to actually think and analyze things and even in a way force the viewer to participate. At least that was my experience.

One thing I will say though is I think DC/Warners need to realize their approach as is, will NEVER get the instant Billion dollar numbers the Marvel movies are getting,because those movies are made in such a way to guarantee the biggest grosses possible by not deviating too much from the road traveled. I mean, when counting home sales and the grosses for MOS and for BVS (when it comes out on disc and digital that is) likely approach the 2 billion range, and just on the Box office alone both together total a Billion and a half and BVS isn't quite done. For two movies in a fledgling universe. it's pretty damn good. They need to decide whats more important,beating Marvel at Box office gross (which even when not accounting on the huge head start Marvel has is a near impossible task) or making their own path and adjusting expectations to match. Meaning, basically, start watching the budgets more carefully. There's no reason, with the story it told, BvS couldn't have been done a little more economically without sacrificing the epic nature of the film. Just work on tightening the scripts,being more certain of what you are trying to do and execute it. If BvS's budget was anywhere 50-75 million cheaper, you wouldn't see people wringing their hands calling a film that made (or will make) $850 million a disappointment or flop.

Yes! This!

[Rogue Star]

I saw Captain America: Civil War yesterday - and I'm sorry to say this but it absolutely SHAT on Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice. From a great height too. Marvel films have gotten it SO right - and DC is getting it SO wrong and it's absolutely BREAKING MY HEART.

I think they can turn it around with Suicide Squad. Wonder Woman might end up being good and Ben Affleck's Batman movie could do wonders... it's just... what worries me is Justice League. I don't wanna be a hater but I'm just finding it real difficult to put faith in Snyder.

There IS a possibility that Justice League could be awesome and make us eat our words. It may even make us look back on Batman V Superman more fondly.

The problem with BvS is that it was merely "OK". Above average at best. It really needed to be MORE.

If I was in charge of DC? I'd have done it like this -

- Start with two back to back Superman films. The first one an origin. The second one Death Of Superman.

- Then the Green Lantern film.

- After that I'd do the THIRD Superman which would be "Reign Of The Superman" and crossover Green Lantern into that.

- Two Batman films back to back. Filmed at the same time as the back to back Supermans. Introduce Robin in the second one.

- Then the Flash movie would be based on "Born To Run". Introduce Wally West and have an origin recap for Barry Allen.

- Then Cyborg and Aquaman both get one film.

- In the Wonder Woman film, put a post credits stinger introducing Wonder Girl.

So we've got everyone introduced - right?

Next - a MARTIAN MANHUNTER solo movie. Comes to Earth and observes the antics of all these heroes.

- THEN I'd do the Justice League movie

- and THEN a Teen Titans movie.

It wouldn't be UNLIKE what Marvel have done. Marvel however are all about that one superhero team - The Avengers. That's fine of course. It's obvious they do it brilliantly.

But DC have two iconic teams. Justice League and Teen Titans. They owe it to the audience - and THEMSELVES to set that up.

Of course. None of that fucking happened. Warner Bros just throw everything at the screen to see what sticks. They insist on sticking with a director - who whilst talented in his own way - shouldn't be in charge of THIS franchise. Let's face it - this needs to be their replacement for Harry Potter.
Right now? It's just not going very well. AT ALL.
It pisses me off. I've read DC all my life. Batman and Superman I've wanted to see in a film together even before shared universes were the cinematic norm. I've never read a Captain America or Iron Man comic.
Yet Captain America: Civil War moved me far more than Batman V Superman EVER did. When a film about people who I don't care about affects me more than a film about people I DO... it's just NOT good.

I implore other DC fans to drop their Marvel hatred - go and watch Civil War and BE ANNOYED that DC aren't taking care of us as well as Marvel are taking care of their fans.

WE NEED TO DEMAND THAT KIND OF FUCKING QUALITY FOR OURSELVES.

I'm really pissed off that I had to settle for second best, I really am.

I would have started the DCEU like this:

Man of Steel

The Batman

(Wonder Woman)

Batman v Superman

I would have put a Wonder Woman movie either before or immediately after Batman v Superman (I never understood the desire to make her a third wheel in BvS). At the very least Batman v Superman could have been a two parter. That would have smoothed out a very compacted BvS.

Man of Steel

Batman v Superman part 1

Wonder Woman

Batman v Superman part 2


That's probably how I would have done it, instead of trying to do it all in one movie (Spiderman 3, The Amazing Spiderman 2 and Age of Ultron should have served as an example of how bad it could go). But of course none of that matters now. There's nowhere to go but forward with the way things are.

[Tayswift]

I KNEW we would get one of these "DC needs to follow Marvel's playbook" threads in disguise soon as CIVIL WAR came out.

First off, I am excited to see Civil War and I am counting the days to see it, and this is someone who generally doesn't give a whit about Marvel aside from Spider-Man and some era's of the X-Men. I so far have enjoyed all the Marvel Studio's movies for what they are, which is mostly fun throw away popcorn entertainment. You go see it in the theater once or twice, enjoy the ride and then if you really like it, get the DVD and watch it again sometime later. Now stuff like WINTER SOLDIER and GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY transends that formula and tries to be timely and succeeds ,but for the most part, Marvel movies are product, and as they continue the more they feel very homogonized, corporate and manufactured to a degree to check off a check list. Ant-Man was fun but it in many ways felt like a remake of the first IRON MAN in terms of structure and filling out the "marvel requirements".


I don't want that for the DC films and I'm glad they have made a conscious decision to not go the purely formulaic route. MOS and BVS are not perfect films,but at least they do strive to be original and not to just merely try to tweak the movie to make them mere "crowd pleasers" and for me personally the positives of both films FAR outweigh the negatives. They are movies that try to say something and don't hold your hand from start to finish and inspire debate and require a willingness to actually think and analyze things and even in a way force the viewer to participate. At least that was my experience.

One thing I will say though is I think DC/Warners need to realize their approach as is, will NEVER get the instant Billion dollar numbers the Marvel movies are getting,because those movies are made in such a way to guarantee the biggest grosses possible by not deviating too much from the road traveled. I mean, when counting home sales and the grosses for MOS and for BVS (when it comes out on disc and digital that is) likely approach the 2 billion range, and just on the Box office alone both together total a Billion and a half and BVS isn't quite done. For two movies in a fledgling universe. it's pretty damn good. They need to decide whats more important,beating Marvel at Box office gross (which even when not accounting on the huge head start Marvel has is a near impossible task) or making their own path and adjusting expectations to match. Meaning, basically, start watching the budgets more carefully. There's no reason, with the story it told, BvS couldn't have been done a little more economically without sacrificing the epic nature of the film. Just work on tightening the scripts,being more certain of what you are trying to do and execute it. If BvS's budget was anywhere 50-75 million cheaper, you wouldn't see people wringing their hands calling a film that made (or will make) $850 million a disappointment or flop.

Nah stop this nosense: Bat v Sup should get 1 billion easily. It's the first time of trinity together on screen LOL WB lost the chance to win money easily (it wasn't even required a super expensive promotion if material was good).
Maybe they shouldn't had hired this guy to direct their movies:



there isn't a marvel formula, that is one big myth. What the best marvel movies have is simply character development, all of them are character driven. some are super funny, other have some bits like cap movies and thor.

Marvel worked hard to get their billion dollars movies, they didn't rely on the icon names or did: iron man 1, iron man v cap america: dawn of avengers. Feige put hard work to make second-tier characters do good money and be part of popular culture.

[Rogue Star]

Exactly. They sell it really well on the first time around, when all the jokes are still fresh... but jokes aren't good when you know when they are coming.

By contrast, people were still arguing over Man of Steel 2 years after it was released... even if much of it would be on a sort of loop.

Note: I have to admit to my own personal Marvel fatigue in this matter because I'm starting to see the formula within their movies and come to realize they are mostly the same; have superheroes, add jokes, blow something big up; end with crowd-pleaser and don't make people think too hard about whats going on.

People forget that Marvel never had the ability to take the risks that WB had. Marvel could have lost the movie rights to their characters just to stay alive. In Man of Steel, WB could afford to have Superman be on a rough learning curve. Who could Marvel Studios play with like that? Iron Man? People didn't know who he was. As much as some people hate to admit it, Man of Steel could never have been the start of the DCEU without the Donner movies first endearing people to Superman. Marvel movies are popcorn fair right now (as much as it bothers me sometimes) but they need to be in order for a character like Captain America to become the next generation's Superman. When he gets there, then you can take more chances with his portrayal.

[PLG1962]

Coke Vs Pepsi
Marvel vs DC
McDonald's Vs KFC

Why do people feel the need to have to choose why cant you just enjoy both

and to get this back on topic I have seen CA Civil War its pretty average imo not as good as TWS
One thing I am noticing and it really depresses me is that every Superhero film is "the best ever" until the next one

[Vinsanity]

I liked BVS more but it was a fun movie (Civil War) I don't know why fans have to make it a competition.