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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I do wonder though, where everybody who wants an ongoing now was when it was being canceled and restarted, canceled, restarted. Because I didn't see regular threads here. Conversation anywhere seemed sparse. I know some of us were all in, but it does seem like there's a lot of people who just want there to be an ongoing they don't have to read or buy, just to exist.
    Most did not care about the Fantastic Four until that movie gave us a black Johnny Storm. For all those purists that book didn't increase in sales to support the team.

    Nobody cared about Falcon being around until he put on THAT suit. The same folk crying for Steve-will not be buying Steve nor Sam's book.

    Nobody cared about Rich Rider for years-Sam Alexander pops up and you can't do a Nova thread without his fans attacking Sam.

    Same with Thor, Hulk, Storm being married to you know who, Wasp and She Hulk.

    So what is Marvel to do?

    Now what not to do is get rid of the team. Especially not over a film whose dvd will still be around and every single flame war and hate tossed at it will not go away. All you are doing is telling Fox-that they can bully Marvel.

    I mean if it was me I would take their idea and show them how it's DONE.

  2. #17
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I've been accepting substitutes much of my life. Sometimes it's good to have Ms Marvel or Black Panther in there. But, then, I'm not necessarily looking for the same thing in an FF comic as some are, so I'm maybe easier to please? The only runs I don't really cotton to are Byrne, Claremont, and Hickman, though I can do some Byrne, some Hickman, and Claremont gave us Alyssa Moy, so that's good.
    I must admit that not cottoning to Byrne's or Hickman's FF runs is a most unusual opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I do wonder though, where everybody who wants an ongoing now was when it was being canceled and restarted, canceled, restarted. Because I didn't see regular threads here. Conversation anywhere seemed sparse. I know some of us were all in, but it does seem like there's a lot of people who just want there to be an ongoing they don't have to read or buy, just to exist.
    I'm not sure many folks truly consider a number 1 the next month after a "final issue" to be a real cancellation. I sure don't. There are a few threads or at least parts of threads about Marvel's tendency for renumbering.

    In any case, I want to see a new FF book. Reed, Sue, Ben, Johnny, Val, and Franklin. I was buying every month since early 1971. I've said I could use some time off and I'm actually OK with a break. But I am worried about quality and if a new FF book is going to feature anything new and/or innovative. Robinson's latest run was good, but by the numbers and nothing we haven't seen before. Fraction's run was different but I didn't think it was that great.

    I hope Marvel is giving some serious thought to finding the right team and story for an FF revival. After 54 years, the ideas are tougher to come by. I want an original FF type of jump, Alan Moore on Swamp Thing jump. I'm OK waiting if that's what's happening.

  3. #18

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    It's time to start a fan campaign to bring on Christopher Priest as the new writer of the Fantastic Four and to give him a top notch A-list artist; keep him in the loop on company-wide events, but give him the leeway to still craft his own stories his way.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    I think they'll be back next year
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    That's just not going to happen. The FF are one of Marvel's flagship titles. They're just trying to stick it to Fox
    Why would that end by 2017?

  5. #20
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I've been accepting substitutes much of my life. Sometimes it's good to have Ms Marvel or Black Panther in there. But, then, I'm not necessarily looking for the same thing in an FF comic as some are, so I'm maybe easier to please? The only runs I don't really cotton to are Byrne, Claremont, and Hickman, though I can do some Byrne, some Hickman, and Claremont gave us Alyssa Moy, so that's good.

    I do wonder though, where everybody who wants an ongoing now was when it was being canceled and restarted, canceled, restarted. Because I didn't see regular threads here. Conversation anywhere seemed sparse. I know some of us were all in, but it does seem like there's a lot of people who just want there to be an ongoing they don't have to read or buy, just to exist.
    Well, they sold as well as the Inhumans.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member nnelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Most did not care about the Fantastic Four until that movie gave us a black Johnny Storm. For all those purists that book didn't increase in sales to support the team.

    Nobody cared about Falcon being around until he put on THAT suit. The same folk crying for Steve-will not be buying Steve nor Sam's book.

    Nobody cared about Rich Rider for years-Sam Alexander pops up and you can't do a Nova thread without his fans attacking Sam.

    Same with Thor, Hulk, Storm being married to you know who, Wasp and She Hulk.

    So what is Marvel to do?

    Now what not to do is get rid of the team. Especially not over a film whose dvd will still be around and every single flame war and hate tossed at it will not go away. All you are doing is telling Fox-that they can bully Marvel.

    I mean if it was me I would take their idea and show them how it's DONE.
    Nobody cared for Thor, Hulk, and the FF? Of course people cared for them. They had books since the 60's. That wouldn't have happened if people didn't care for them. The same goes for The Wasp. And Rich Rider became popular when DnA where writing him. Then for some reason reason Marvel replaced him. Of course fans are going to be pissed. Do you really think people aren't going to buy Steve's Cap book? Now Sam's is probably going to be hurt in sells. But Steve's is going to sell. I do not understand your point about Storm.

  7. #22
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itspopularnowitsucks View Post
    FF is totally substituted by Ultimates now.
    Only partly, as far as cosmic stories are concerned. The FF was also about other-level stories and family.
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  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    You may be right, but...own gut feeling...next two years.

    But hope that new writer thinks of some convincing way of getting more out of Ben Grimm. I hate increasing or altering powerset of such a well established character...but it may be necessary in this case.

    Ben has been really hit by rapid escalation of powers in many, many other Marvel characters. He was one of the Titans of the original marvel-verse. Now? Any one of dozens of kid mutants could most likely outfight/ overpower him.

    He needs to be more than a five minute interlude when he shouts "clobbering time" and pluckily fights for a short while somebody else sorts the real problem.
    I don't think Ben needs a power increase. He just needs to be well written, it's not all about power it's also about the character and his personality.

    Hopefully someone at Marvel will pitch a good idea for an FF book and they will return.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Only partly, as far as cosmic stories are concerned. The FF was also about other-level stories and family.
    Group of people investigating and dealing with big cosmic stuff. Check. Uses a lot of FF characters and concepts. Check. Team made of highly intelligent brick, energy manipulators, and smart guys? Check.

    The FF has been made of two biologically-unrelated couples, two biologically unrelated friends and a married couple they sort of know, and also a woman, her dead husband's bestie, the brainwashed adopted son of their worst enemy, and a guy famous for stealing Hank Pym's stuff. Not even counting one-offs, HERBIE, or "The New Fantastic Four" satire team.
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  10. #25
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    Group of people investigating and dealing with big cosmic stuff. Check…
    What Ultimates doesn't have for me that the FF had is that emotional tug.
    The FF has been made of two biologically-unrelated couples…
    True, and the FF reverts to the founding four after a while (the Handbooks by the way never officially included Kristoff as a member).
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  11. #26
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    Group of people investigating and dealing with big cosmic stuff. Check. Uses a lot of FF characters and concepts. Check. Team made of highly intelligent brick, energy manipulators, and smart guys? Check.

    The FF has been made of two biologically-unrelated couples, two biologically unrelated friends and a married couple they sort of know, and also a woman, her dead husband's bestie, the brainwashed adopted son of their worst enemy, and a guy famous for stealing Hank Pym's stuff. Not even counting one-offs, HERBIE, or "The New Fantastic Four" satire team.
    If that's all you're getting from FF, great. It's a sci-fi, cosmic book. That's OK. It's a fair assessment. The FF has had lineup changes, concept tweaks and extended cast hanging around. Ultimately, though, as ray will probably tell you. It will always come back to Reed, Sue, Ben, and Johnny. They were rare in comics in that they developed powers after they got together. If Scott Lang or T'Challa or Jen Walters hangs for a bit, great. They're welcome guests. But for a lot of us, the FF is scens of Reed, Sue, Ben, and Johnny at breakfast, one of them in a towel or Reed shaving. That's what's missing without an FF book.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    If that's all you're getting from FF, great. It's a sci-fi, cosmic book. That's OK. It's a fair assessment. The FF has had lineup changes, concept tweaks and extended cast hanging around. Ultimately, though, as ray will probably tell you. It will always come back to Reed, Sue, Ben, and Johnny. They were rare in comics in that they developed powers after they got together. If Scott Lang or T'Challa or Jen Walters hangs for a bit, great. They're welcome guests. But for a lot of us, the FF is scens of Reed, Sue, Ben, and Johnny at breakfast, one of them in a towel or Reed shaving. That's what's missing without an FF book.
    I don't eve know why I bother.

    Fans didn't abandon ship because Shulkie stuck around. They didn't read month after month of Ben Grimm solo or team-up stories getting agitated because Sue wasn't in them all the time. Reed was "dead" for a few years.

    "A lot of us," liked those, and other comics that fulfill a similar niche (which is all I said) to the FF comics.

    I would like a book with the four of them again. I certainly bought enough of every other version, and reread them often enough. It's a good cast. Good dynamic.

    That doesn't invalidate She-Hulk or Ant-Man's tenure with the team, or that a book without those characters can fill a similar niche to the average FF comic. My favorite FF comic, period, had absolutely nothing cosmic in it. My second favorite is largely about the guest-star.

    I'd be more than happy for both of you to get the FF comic you want, but I don't need to crap on those that anyone else likes or dynamics they enjoy with "If that's all" and "a lot of us," to justify what I like out of an FF comic or one fulfilling one of the niches that those comics can fill, and I'm not sure what it gets you. if there were enough in that "lot" to make a difference, the book you want would be serializing right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    What Ultimates doesn't have for me that the FF had is that emotional tug.
    I can get behind that. It's fulfilling a niche for me, but it's not everything I could be getting out of an FF comic proper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    True, and the FF reverts to the founding four after a while (the Handbooks by the way never officially included Kristoff as a member).
    I never trust a handbook, but even in-story, he just basically elected himself a member. I seem to recall Ben wasn't so down with it. He was a cast-member at the very least, though.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I've been accepting substitutes much of my life. Sometimes it's good to have Ms Marvel or Black Panther in there. But, then, I'm not necessarily looking for the same thing in an FF comic as some are, so I'm maybe easier to please? The only runs I don't really cotton to are Byrne, Claremont, and Hickman, though I can do some Byrne, some Hickman, and Claremont gave us Alyssa Moy, so that's good.

    I do wonder though, where everybody who wants an ongoing now was when it was being canceled and restarted, canceled, restarted. Because I didn't see regular threads here. Conversation anywhere seemed sparse. I know some of us were all in, but it does seem like there's a lot of people who just want there to be an ongoing they don't have to read or buy, just to exist.
    The bolded part is something James Robinson touched upon when the book was being cancelled.

    Lots of people who didn't support the book were complaining the most when it was being cancelled. It's pertinent that we as comic fans need to support what we like more.

    There were lots of threads about the FF (particularly during the Robinson run) right here but it seemed folks weren't interested.

  14. #29
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    It's been a year since the book was cancelled, but it's only been 5 months since the last major FF story, Reed and Doom in Secret Wars.

  15. #30
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I don't eve know why I bother.

    Fans didn't abandon ship because Shulkie stuck around. They didn't read month after month of Ben Grimm solo or team-up stories getting agitated because Sue wasn't in them all the time. Reed was "dead" for a few years.

    "A lot of us," liked those, and other comics that fulfill a similar niche (which is all I said) to the FF comics.

    I would like a book with the four of them again. I certainly bought enough of every other version, and reread them often enough. It's a good cast. Good dynamic.

    That doesn't invalidate She-Hulk or Ant-Man's tenure with the team, or that a book without those characters can fill a similar niche to the average FF comic. My favorite FF comic, period, had absolutely nothing cosmic in it. My second favorite is largely about the guest-star.

    I'd be more than happy for both of you to get the FF comic you want, but I don't need to crap on those that anyone else likes or dynamics they enjoy with "If that's all" and "a lot of us," to justify what I like out of an FF comic or one fulfilling one of the niches that those comics can fill, and I'm not sure what it gets you. if there were enough in that "lot" to make a difference, the book you want would be serializing right now.
    Trust me, I am not crapping on you, or insulting your tastes. I'm far from subtle when I do that. I do think it's extremely rare for someone to be a longtime reader of FF and find the Byrne and Hickman runs not to their liking. I do not consider the words atypical, rare, or unusual to be insults I was actually very curious as to the reasoning behind your likes, but didn't want to be too nosy. I was not throwing out backhanded compliments meaning to insult you. I don't know how exactly to phrase it so you truly believe that. Obviously it's OK for you to like whatever you want about a book and if you find a substitute for that in Ultimates, that's even better.

    Mentioning those parts of FF that I enjoyed that may not be reflected in Ultimates was never meant to put other opinions down. This isn't an election where I like candidate A can more easily be construed as I dislike candidate B. This is more like someone caring about the panel structure in Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns and someone else not really getting into it.

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