GRAYSON #1 Preview/Discussion (spoilers from pg14)

[ReverseReverseFlash]

Helena looks good. That hair sort of makes her the hottest woman in the DCU right now. The purple is a nice callback, too. Taking the whole "Schoolteacher" thing to St. Hadrian's is a fun concept.

All kinds of intrigue going on in that train. Targets. Enemy agents. Mystery players. Daylight daredevils. I wonder if Midnighter will comment on Dick's sex appeal. I kind of hope so.

I think it's mostly due to Janin's awesome clean style, but Helene does look amazing. I also like how quick she is with the small banter. Dick is already challenging their expectations and stirring up trouble with his attitude.

I kinda hope the blonde hair is temporary though. Not that the idea doesn't work, but I keep seeing someone else on the page instead of Dick.

[Kid A]

I am not an expert on the character, but I don't think "badguy" is how you would describe Midnighter. "Anti-hero" seems to fit pretty well. He's kind of a gay Wolverine without the claws. I think he has also developed some kind of mild precognitive abilities in recent years. Some versions, like some versions of Wolverine, have reveled in violence and killing, but I don't know if that has been recent. He has typically been strongly linked with Apollo, a kind of gay Superman, and I think was married to him in one continuity.

It's hard to say because the Authority didn't really have any moral depth, and it wasn't supposed to. He killed people brutally, but the victims are usually genocidal freaks.

That's why it's a bad idea to throw him into a book like this that will be all about shades of gray.

[ReverseReverseFlash]

I wouldn't mind finding out that the Authority exists as a smaller rival organization to Spyral, totally separate from Stormwatch.

I'd put the Martian Manhunter on the team as a totally different identity, like he did with Bloodwynd.

[Dzetoun]

It's hard to say because the Authority didn't really have any moral depth, and it wasn't supposed to. He killed people brutally, but the victims are usually genocidal freaks.

That's why it's a bad idea to throw him into a book like this that will be all about shades of gray.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. If his background is all sorts of gray shadings (which is my understanding as well) why is it a bad idea to put him in a book that is about shades of gray?

[oasis1313]

Chuckle. You and Tom King certainly see things very differently, Oasis. In his most recent podcast, King was at pains to stress that Dick was, is, and always will be Batman's chosen heir. So much so, in fact, that Batman invests more thought and emotional energy into Dick than into himself. In fact, he said that he chose the odd wording of one of Batman's statements in Nightwing 30 deliberately to emphasize that - the point where he asks Dick "are you them or are you me?" This was, King says, an indication of just how strongly Batman feels on the subject, that he has come on some level to see Dick as being almost literally another him, only stronger and better, arguably (and this is my summation, not King's words) Batman as he should have been.

I would be down with that. But it's one thing when a creator says something in a podcast only a few people listen to, and it's a different matter when the company PRINTS their idea of the mantra. According to what DC has printed, Tim is the "chosen heir". Exactly WHY hasn't been explained, to my knowledge.

[FHIZ]

I'm not sure that's Midnighter. He refers to himself as Black Oak.

Code names. Look at the chin spike, the wrist tassels, the gloves, the boots, then look at Midnighter's New 52 design sheet.



It's 100% Midnighter. And they gave him his trench coat back.

I mean, who else is going to have a chin spike and those tassels hanging off his forearms?

[Kid A]

I'm sorry, I don't understand. If his background is all sorts of gray shadings (which is my understanding as well) why is it a bad idea to put him in a book that is about shades of gray?

His character is potentially gray if you were to scratch the surface, but the Authority never scratched that surface. The book itself was as black and white as it gets; it was Superfriends reimagined to the 21st century. They killed, but they were killing genocidal nut jobs. Actually exploring moral complexity of whether Midnighter should be killing or not misses the point of the character, because he was intended to be a caricature Batman via John Woo; aka style over substance.

[Dzetoun]

I would be down with that. But it's one thing when a creator says something in a podcast only a few people listen to, and it's a different matter when the company PRINTS their idea of the mantra. According to what DC has printed, Tim is the "chosen heir". Exactly WHY hasn't been explained, to my knowledge.

If we go by what is printed, then we measure one mention of that idea in one book and, I believe, in a previous continuity, against the fact that Dick actually became Batman in both continuities and across multiple titles. Not much of a case for Tim or against Dick, there. Add in the fact that Batman obviously trusts Dick more than Tim, or at least has greater faith in his abilities, and, yes, that Dick is referred to in print as the Dark Heir, and I don't think you are going to find many family court judges that would side with Tim in an inheritance dispute based on DC's printed canon.

[Dzetoun]

His character is potentially gray if you were to scratch the surface, but the Authority never scratched that surface. The book itself was as black and white as it gets; it was Superfriends reimagined to the 21st century. They killed, but they were killing genocidal nut jobs. Actually exploring moral complexity of whether Midnighter should be killing or not misses the point of the character, because he was intended to be a caricature Batman via John Woo; aka style over substance.

Well, as I say, I don't know whether the violence and killing holds with Midnighter in the recent past. And even if it does, they may well decide not to go with that aspect of his character in this book. A John Woo Batman in a James Bond style spy book could be an enormous amount of fun.

[oasis1313]

If we go by what is printed, then we measure one mention of that idea in one book and, I believe, in a previous continuity, against the fact that Dick actually became Batman in both continuities and across multiple titles. Not much of a case for Tim or against Dick, there. Add in the fact that Batman obviously trusts Dick more than Tim, or at least has greater faith in his abilities, and, yes, that Dick is referred to in print as the Dark Heir, and I don't think you are going to find many family court judges that would side with Tim in an inheritance dispute based on DC's printed canon.

Or is it possible that Dick became Batman instead of Tim because he is "man" age and Tim would be "Bat-Teen"; that is, by default?

[ABH]

Code names. Look at the chin spike, the wrist tassels, the gloves, the boots, then look at Midnighter's New 52 design sheet.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...h_lorez_02.jpg

It's 100% Midnighter. And they gave him his trench coat back.

I mean, who else is going to have a chin spike and those tassels hanging off his forearms?

Yeah, Black Oak has to be Midnighter -- you could ignore one similar element, maybe two, but this guy has all the visual cues of Midnighter.

[oasis1313]

Yeah, Black Oak has to be Midnighter -- you could ignore one similar element, maybe two, but this guy has all the visual cues of Midnighter.

Maybe Black Oak is Midnighter's twin brother, but with the same bad attitude. He might work as as a Reverse-Batman, the antithesis of Batman's strengths and goodness? Visually a bit like Batman, but nothing like him in heart?

[ABH]

Maybe Black Oak is Midnighter's straight twin brother, but with the same bad attitude.

I don't know a lot about the New 52 Midnighter, but if this is not him, then it's someone that's purposely trying to look like him (jackin' his style) or this "Black Oak" has similar origins and was bioengineered the same way Midnighter was. Either way, the connection to Midnighter is intentional.

[Kid A]

I don't know a lot about the New 52 Midnighter, but if this is not him, then it's someone that's purposely trying to look like him (jackin' his style) or this "Black Oak" has similar origins and was bioengineered the same way Midnighter was. Either way, the connection to Midnighter is intentional.

Heh, this is a great way to reveal New 52 Midnighter was just Black Oak, and reintroduce the real one in all his black leather trench coat glory.

EDIT: Ugh never mind, I finally saw the preview. So that's most definitely Midnighter, and he's already in the coat.

[FHIZ]

Clearly Black Oak is a code name... I mean, he's talking to someone he's calling "Gardener" ...would anyone really go by the name Gardener? He's clearly working for a boss who is going by a code name, and the Gardener's operatives' code names are plants.