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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Why doesn't it have to be?
    Short answer, because he's Superman, not almost Superman, or becoming Superman, or used to be Superman. Superman. Who wants to read about almost Bruce Lee or almost Michael Jordan?

    That's not to say I don't like to read stories where Superman is challenged or soul searching. I just think Superman should be approached with a full of toolbox, all his mythology, and some of that means limits are not part of the equation.

    During the Golden Age, much of the fun of Superman is reading how he "does it again!" First outrunning trains, then bullets, then electrical current. The limits to his abilities grow. I think that's fundamental to the character.
    Last edited by Johnny Thunders!; 05-07-2016 at 06:25 AM.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Vinsanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    Short answer, because he's Superman, not almost Superman, or becoming Superman, or used to be Superman. Superman. Who wants to read about almost Bruce Lee or almost Michael Jordan?

    That's not to say I don't like to read stories where Superman is challenged or soul searching. I just think Superman should be approached with a full of toolbox, all his mythology, and some of that means limits are not part of the equation.

    During the Golden Age, much of the fun of Superman is reading how he "does it again!" First outrunning trains, then bullets, then electrical current. The limits to his abilities grow. I think that's fundamental to the character.
    Well there are several almost Michael Jordans and we do read about those. Just to be fair.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinsanity View Post
    Well there are several almost Michael Jordans and we do read about those. Just to be fair.
    And they're great, but Jordan gets to be Jordan. Just like Bugs Bunny gets to be Bugs Bunny. Space Jam, that's all I want from Superman.

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    If Siegel and Shuster had picked a different name for their creation, such as the Champion, I wonder if there would have been as much pressure for him to be the SUPERman. He still would've been the same character, he still would have influenced the comic industry to go into costumed hero overdrive, there still would have been copycats like Captain Marvel putting pressure on the Champion to keep upping his game. But I wonder if he would have had to sustain that image as the most powerful of the powerful.

    I look at a character like Captain America--the Super-Soldier--who I think of as being a super-powered hero (and his powers were near the level of the early Superman when he was created); yet I always see him compared with Batman, who I don't think of as a super-powered hero.

    I don't know where I'm going with this. And I might be playing devil's advocate. But it's always tempting to think about the what-ifs.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member DieHard200904's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If Siegel and Shuster had picked a different name for their creation, such as the Champion, I wonder if there would have been as much pressure for him to be the SUPERman. He still would've been the same character, he still would have influenced the comic industry to go into costumed hero overdrive, there still would have been copycats like Captain Marvel putting pressure on the Champion to keep upping his game. But I wonder if he would have had to sustain that image as the most powerful of the powerful.

    I look at a character like Captain America--the Super-Soldier--who I think of as being a super-powered hero (and his powers were near the level of the early Superman when he was created); yet I always see him compared with Batman, who I don't think of as a super-powered hero.

    I don't know where I'm going with this. And I might be playing devil's advocate. But it's always tempting to think about the what-ifs.
    Superman was arguably inspired by a sci-fi character known as Gladiator (Hugo Danner), which kind of sounds interesting in the direction that you're talking about making Superman a champion warrior among superheroes.

    Have you ever seen the Elseworlds story JLA: Shogun of Steel? That story makes Superman a master samurai in fuedal Japan and goes in the direction you are talking about. You might enjoy it. It is out of the regular direction of the various JLA members from DCU canon, but Superman has about the same origins in being from Krypton, except his ethnicity, real name (Hoshi) and his upbringing are different.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If Siegel and Shuster had picked a different name for their creation, such as the Champion, I wonder if there would have been as much pressure for him to be the SUPERman. He still would've been the same character, he still would have influenced the comic industry to go into costumed hero overdrive, there still would have been copycats like Captain Marvel putting pressure on the Champion to keep upping his game. But I wonder if he would have had to sustain that image as the most powerful of the powerful.

    I look at a character like Captain America--the Super-Soldier--who I think of as being a super-powered hero (and his powers were near the level of the early Superman when he was created); yet I always see him compared with Batman, who I don't think of as a super-powered hero.

    I don't know where I'm going with this. And I might be playing devil's advocate. But it's always tempting to think about the what-ifs.

    In 75 years had he never encountered another superhero. He'd still compete with himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    In 75 years had he never encountered another superhero. He'd still compete with himself.
    Yeah, but I guess what I'm saying is the name itself--Superman--put a pressure on him to be that. In the 1950s, after the demise of Captain Marvel, there was no pressure for Superman to be more Super. The TV show was limited in the things it could do--and Mort Weisinger was under some restriction from Whit Ellsworth in adding anymore to the mythos (it was after THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN finished production that Mort was given his head to make more out of the Man of Steel). So during that holding pattern, they could have cut down on his power levels and there'd be no one to say otherwise. Kids didn't have collections that went back that far.

    I think it's the name that prevented Superman from becoming less Super--whereas, if he'd been the Champion he could have settled into the domesticity that the 1950s encouraged. With the Comics Code cutting off so many plots--especially crime, suspense and the supernatural--the Man of Steel, like Super-Duck, could have gone in for more mundane pursuits and quietly forgot about his more fantastic powers and fabulous adventures. He still could have styled himself "The World's Greatest Adventure Character" and pulled it off. THE FANTASTIC FOUR got away with calling their book "The World's Greatest Comic Magazine" and they had no one on their team near Superman's level--they struggled to pay their rent, fended off jilted lovers and grumbled about their bitter lot in life. "World's Greatest" must be a relative term.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    The name is definitely part of it, and I think it rightly says it all. Once you have the idea though, you end up with the same result. Superman just keeps going. Had them called him "The Tank"' but kept him on that same path, he'd roll right through Galactus. I agree, Fantastic Four, that's less pressure than being Superman. Good old Marvel, all the teams are all about not being the Worlds Finest.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If Siegel and Shuster had picked a different name for their creation, such as the Champion, I wonder if there would have been as much pressure for him to be the SUPERman. He still would've been the same character, he still would have influenced the comic industry to go into costumed hero overdrive, there still would have been copycats like Captain Marvel putting pressure on the Champion to keep upping his game. But I wonder if he would have had to sustain that image as the most powerful of the powerful.
    Thats a good question.

    But then, if the name had been different, would we be talking about him at all now, or would he be another ghost like the Phantom, Zorro, or The Shadow?

    A big part of Superman's appeal is that power fantasy, and the name does capture that perfectly. Would he have survived all this time without that label?

    I do think there would be less emphasis on him being a role model. Perhaps the power fantasy would have remained the same under a different name, but being "Superman" puts a lot of pressure on you to be the best person possible, while other characters can get away with being asshats.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #85
    Omnes Viae Ad Infernum 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    I like Superman being as traditional as possible(without the heavy reimaginings of the post crisis era mainly), but not quite silver age either. My Superman is a man of two worlds but leans more toward human than Kryptonian since he experienced Earth culture directly growing up while Kryptonian culture was either learned through crystals and holograms or faint early childhood memories from before he was sent to Earth. He identifies as Clark Kent, but at the same time, he does pretend to be more timid than he really is to set himself apart from Superman. In a sense, his Clark is the person he might have been if he was really human and never had powers. Maybe he even had the "disguise" from a young age, like in Superboy comics.

    As a person, he is very selfless and heroic, but not superhumanly so. He has moments of weakness and doesn't immediately have the answer to every problem. Still, I think what people perceive as unrealistically or unrelatably good is definitely achievable by real human beings, it just makes them feel bad because they don't do charity work or volunteer or go overseas and feed the hungry and build houses for the homeless and all that. Yeah, the average person is generally good in that they don't steal or kill or cheat but many are still relatively selfish and lazy, but that doesn't mean superheroes have to be.

    I don't believe in the "there's always a way" mantra and believe there are occasions where Superman can't save everyone and some villains can only be stopped by killing them. I don't think Superman should resort to killing in his very first time out as Superman. At first, he can be the "there's always a way" guy who comes up with creative, non-violent solutions to problems but eventually, he'll reach his limits(with a villain like Doomsday, for example) and have to kill.

    I don't think there's any problem with Superman being very powerful, as it's clear that characters such as the Hulk and Thor can be ridiculously powerful and still be popular and successful characters. I do believe most people actually enjoy ridiculous superhuman feats and don't pessimistically pick apart the physics of everything and complain about believability. As long as it's built up to properly, Superman can save the world by pushing it with his bare hands and it will be looked at as one of the greatest moments in cinematic history rather than an absurd, turn-your-brain-off, movie-killing moment. One of the main reasons people even like superheroes and sci-fi is because of larger than life characters and happenings that aren't possible in real life, like planet-sized space stations that can blow up other planets and ships that can travel several times the speed of light.

    Anyway, power-wise, Superman's absolute muscle-tearing, back-breaking limit would be along the lines of moving the Earth, and it's not something he can normally do and takes an excruciating amount of effort that nearly kills him.

    My Krypton and Fortress would be Donner-inspired to a certain extent, but Krypton wouldn't be an exact replica of the Donner version, though it would include crystalline buildings and terrain in the design(along with architecture inspired by the silver age and Byrne's designs, similar to the pre-Flashpoint Krypton). As part of Superman's origin, Clark would journey to the Arctic and throw a crystal into the ice which creates the fortress, where he communicates with a hologram of Jor-El, but not for 12 years as in the movie. The suit would either be a Kryptonian suit created by the fortress or he could return to Smallville where the Kents help him create a suit with his baby blankets.
    I agree with your perception of Superman not always having an answer. As for killing the villain, of course he'd do everything in his power to stop them, but it'd be interesting to see him put in such situations. And that's where the greatest challenges for the character lie. Perhaps he does find a way to stop the villain without killing them, but what if he can't find it? What if the villain makes it impossible for him to choose NOT to kill him/ her (a la Man Of Steel)? What are the implications? And no, I don't think this means Superman would become a dark character, or that he did it because of revenge. It's just a moral dilemma that he, inevitably, has to face (IMO).

    As for the power levels, I'd make him even more powerful, but that's just me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lairston View Post
    I would probably return to the Pre-Crisis Origin for Superman and the pre-Crisis Kryton blowing up like it did with Jor'el sending him to earth. The Kents discovered his ship and took him home and raised him. He grew up with his powers developing earlier than post Crisis. He would not be as strong as he is today but he would have been the equivalent of himself at ten when he was ten. So he would be Superboy in Smallville. And I'd probably even give him powers when he was a baby. Ie the Kent would really have to keep an eye on him that he doesn't do something as a baby to reveal himself. Maybe he could jump like he did in his earlier Golden Age adventures before he could fly.

    He would reveal himself to Lana Lang at some point and they were an item growing up. And they might even have become engaged at some point but it would have been called off for some reason. And eventually they would break up permanently and his leaving Smallville hurt her and she has possibly some anger toward him for it. But its not something they wouldn't be able to work through and remain friends.

    Him being Superboy would open up the possibility of the Legion in the future. There would be no other Superboy if I was running things. Superboy would be what it always was in the past: The adventures of Superman as a boy. The thing that drives me nuts about DC is today they think everything has to happen on the same earth and at the same time... It doesn't.

    Moving into Metropolis, the Daily Planet would be changed to an online publication that people pay for access too like most newspapers today. Perhaps there is also still a print version as well. Lois Lane would be the one to get the first story of Superman's move to Metropolis. How? By him saving her such as the airplane route that was used in I believe Man of Steel. I might be misremembering that.

    Lex Luthor would be the genius businessman of the post-Crisis era and his business was built on his scientific creations. Only he would be younger more like his discovered post-Crisis "son" (when he cloned himself when he was dying). He would hate Superman because he is an alien and consider him a threat to humanity and the world. He would make it his life's work to end Superman. No matter what good Superman does, he would find a reason to see it as a threat.

    Powerwise, Superman would be like the Silver Age in power. He would be able to travel in time if he wanted. And he would be a genius.

    His suit would not be changed from what it was in before nu52 and preferrably a return to the 86 suit or 2003 suit since those were my favorite suits. Anyone who thinks the costume is cheezy is free to head off to another Superhero. :P
    I see many of us are agreeing on a particular version of the DP. And it's great, because it's not just about updating the character, but the world he lives in. Like Perry said in DOJ, it's not 1938 anymore. It's not black and white, but also shades of grey. And in that same way, technology has advanced a great deal since Superman was first introduced, so it would stand to reason that where he works must use that technology or face the consequences.

    As for Lex, yeah. I think he should be more complex a villain than just one who hates Superman because he lost his hair because of him. There have to be motivation behind him that make him a believable threat, especially since he's a human villain, who lives in amodern world.

  11. #86
    Omnes Viae Ad Infernum 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinsanity View Post
    I dunno. Why not Zatanna? She's fun, quirky and dramaless compared to any others. Also feel that John and Clark would have a lot in common. Guy would be that horndog friend that we all have and Vixen is just awesome.
    Now that would be interesting to see. I'm a SMWW fan myself, though. However, I admit I find that intriguing. As for his besties, yeah, why not? I can get behind that. I mean, it would be pretty different from what we're used to seeing, and if done properly it could be awesome.

    Yeah we need more zany cosmic adventures. Just imagine Guy and Superman in a random planet full of blobs trying to help them against some wolf like villain with a mustache.
    HA! Reminds me of certain issue of Kurt Busiek's run. IIRC, it was only a panel among a few describing Superman's day. And that panel in particular was about Superman dealing with a "supervillain" whose superpower/"super evil device" made giant popcorn or something. Superman looked completely bored, and I can imagine him asking himself "why? Why me, Great Rao?" I might be misremembering the popcorn part, but it was something completely silly, but fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If I'm to be honest, I wouldn't mind changes in the costume, the powers, the job situation--if they just kept some of the past stories in continuity.

    Obviously, comic book time being what it is, what happened in 1930 or 1970 has to be updated so it happened five or ten years ago--but I like to think that at any moment an old story from long ago can be referred back to or some old character can return--without a lot of reboots and retcons.

    For example, in ADVENTURE COMICS No. 216 (September '55), Bill Finger wrote "The Wizard City." Then in ACTION COMICS No. 565 (March '85), Mort Todd wrote "The Wizard City Warrior." In the thirty years between these two stories, Wizard City was never even mentioned. But because of the open door policy toward continuity (pre-Crisis), Wizard City could just show up thirty years later.

    And not just pre-Crisis was this possible. In THE POWER COMPANY (circa 2002), Kurt Busiek made use of Carl Andrew Bork, whose only other appearance before then was more than thirty years earlier in a Batman and Flash team-up, "But Bork Can Hurt You," in THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD No. 81 (December '68 - January '69).
    Yeah. Some of those things are worth bringing back with a few updates, as you mentioned. I mean, not EVERYTHING of course, but if the writer can find a way to update the event/ place/ character without problems (or reboots and the like) and make it interesting, sure.
    Last edited by 666MasterOfPuppets; 05-09-2016 at 05:39 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Having Kara at all is just a concession to the fanboys. I've never seen a version of her that I thought worked either on her own or in the context of the Superman world. If anything I'd have her be closer to Linda Danvers instead of to Clark. The moment she is introduced it becomes much harder to establish close relationships between Clark and other characters that aren't romantic, since he doesn't need human friendship as much if he has a blood relative around all the time, so those human relationships have to be established before Kara can be introduced no matter what.

    Defining Superman by his relationships is mostly about having the focus on those relationships. For instance, Jimmy is 'the pal.' Perry is 'the mentor.' The Planet staff are 'the peers.' Turpin shows how the police view Superman. Lois is the one Clark wants to prove his worth as a man to, instead of his worth as a Superman. Linda is the 'little sister' and perhaps the one who gets him into and out of trouble like Moses and Ramses in Prince of Egypt. Conner is the 'little brother' who needs Clark to mentor him. Steel is the ordinary human inspired by Superman to do extraordinary things. The league all view Superman as an inspiration and role model. All these people have a defined role is Clark/Superman's life. He interacts with each of them differently, and they all view him differently. Like, for instance, how in Team Superman from 1998 Connor thought Superman stood primarily for truth, Steel thought he stood for justice, and Linda thought he stood for hope.

    In this context, when Superman goes to space, these people on earth miss him. If he dies, they all mourn him. If his secret identity is discovered, most of them are at risk. And if a threat too big for Superman appears, he can call in the help of 'team Superman.'
    Ah, interesting. You know, I've always thought that seeing Superman having a life is important. Of course, the problem that I've noticed several times with this is that DCemphasizes it too much, in detriment of the fantastical, Sci-Fi side of the character, which is pretty damn important as well. And that's why we've seen him depowered so many times, and practically WITHOUT any space adventures. Superman is about the impossible. Only he (and granted, a few others that could serve as a companion/ vehicle for him to have those adventures) can have those experiences, because he's Superman. Also, when on Earth, it's not just about Metropolis. It's about the whole planet.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    As a 'fanfic-'

    Superman debuts, having adventures around the world and in Metropolis. Clark starts out making a living by writing adventure novels based partly on his actions as Superman. This allows him to spend the vast majority of his time as Superman, only sleeping a few hours a week. He starts out viewing himself as a godlike figure. Perry White, upon reading the novels, sees how much investigative research must have gone into them and tries to hire Clark to be his foreign correspondent, meaning that both as Clark and as Superman he has more international adventures. Becoming a reporter makes him spend more time as a man and to view himself as such.

    At the Planet he meets Lois, Jimmy, and other staff. Lois is initially dismissive of the fiction writer turned reporter, and when an overseas investigation leads him to try to uncover Intergang in Metropolis, her beat, she starts to see him as a rival. Jimmy develops his signal watch which causes Superman to appear in Metropolis much more often than anywhere else. Clark's international scoops bring a lot of buzz and lead to the Planet's first profits in years.

    Soon afterwards either Cadmus or another group (maybe Luthor) creates the Matrix version of Supergirl, and after a fight and her suffering injuries Clark either takes her to the Kents if they are still alive or takes care of her himself for a while. They become like siblings and she fully becomes Supergirl once she's ready to move out. After that there episode where Matrix and Linda Danvers merge occurs.

    When Clark spends more time overseas again Lois misses him and starts to realize her feelings. Steel makes his debut. Cadmus tries to create a more exact replica of Superman than Matrix and clones Connor. The 'team Superman' is unofficially formed.

    The big battles usually happen overseas where there is much less collateral damage than there would be in Metropolis. Metropolis itself is where the more personal conflicts takes place, either because his friends are involved or because it is against someone like Luthor. And during this all he goes into space as many times as seems appropriate.
    An adventure novel writer? Cool, I can see that happening. As for the big battles, I figure there'd be a way for those battles happening there instead say NYC, Metropolis, Gotham, Cairo, Auckland or whatever. Perhaps the villains appear there, but Superman tries to make them follow him to an unpopulated area. The question is: what if they notice that and DON'T follow him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Shady View Post
    I wouldn't change too much. I'd make the Kents alive. Jimmy Olsen would be a bigger role. Perry too.

    I'd throw in more down to Earth stories. Saving people from burning buildings and whatnot. Strong, confident, huge heart. I think I'd find time for Krypto too.

    And when him and Batman get into their eventual disagreement he would kick Batman's ass.
    Krypto, eh? Cool. As for Jimmy, how would you develop him? I agree that he as of late has not appreared much in the comics, or at least with any noticeable role.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikito View Post
    kryptonite, red sun, magic(there any more?).. With those weaknesses Had Enough .. It is fortunate that usually only used green, with 5 types of active kryptonite in the world for example Superman would lose much to face their enemies, it would be easy the enemy had any of them.

    I do not know many types of kryptonite but I think red is the worst ... Although.. they have tried to use it with some villain? Or always it has been used for the good acts so evil?

    I understand what you say about Lois ... until 2 years ago thought the same ..

    Now in the current situation .. If Superman return.. Repeat the same couple in different situation.. I'm sorry I'm not interested.. I think people would get tired too. For that, I prefer single or return with Diana.
    Don't get me wrong. I don't think of Lois as a long-term love-interest. Perhaps when they first met they felt attracted to each other and dated a few times to see how things went, but quickly realized that it wouldn't work and remained as friends. But in the end it was something I threw out there. I'm not even sure if I'd include that in my vision for the character.

    As for red sun radiation, I realize it has to be there in some way or another, since otherwise the destruction of Krypton wouldn't have meant the extinction of the Kryptonians, but nevertheless I'm trying to figure out a way to NOT make it as prominent a weakness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    I don't think H'El on Earth would have seemed that strange to Silver Ag/Bronze Age Superman. Think about what that guy could do. Time Travel, Supervision, Manipulate his breathe in a way that seems telekinetic. His microscopic vision with heat vision, what couldn't he do? Super hypnotism,,,it's all fair to me too.
    Yeah, I agree. And given that Superman's had even more strange powers than those (the mini-Supermen), yup, he would have passed pretty easily.

    Speed, power, vision, strength, and wits, not a little bit, a Super amount. Those powers all manifest from those basic gifts that Superman has. I'll never get that Superman has to be Mr. All Around-er but second in this, second in that,,,but not, Superman. Why does it have to be fair. He gets to play Superman in the room. That's why Dr. Manhattan makes sense as a Superman analogue.
    I agree with this, too. I mean, I think Grant Morrison said something once about that when interviewed about All Star Superman, and it was along the lines of "the more powerful he is, the more vulnerable he gets". Not physically, mind you, but in other ways (emotionally, morally, etc.)
    Last edited by 666MasterOfPuppets; 05-09-2016 at 06:13 AM.

  13. #88
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    Awesome thread here - tons of great ideas. = )

    All right! Here's my take on it:

    Krypton was a hostile environment to the Kryptonians - but they flourished eventually. Kryptonians were Golden Age -level of Physical and mental Marvel's, caused by centuries of genetic engineering*.

    When exposed to red Sunlight Superman returns to Golden Age power-levels.

    When coming to Earth, Superman's powers slowly increase to Post-Crisis levels.** Morrison-Morales Origin - it works well.
    Clark Kent works at the Daily Planet, but it is nowadays a digital news-service, no print.***

    Lex Luthor - An arms-dealer who has a global reach, his dirty hands in blackwater style security firms. Secretly fomenting conflict for personal gain and as a science experiment.
    He is also a genius inventor and his unique advanced weapons are highly sought after on the black market.

    Most of the continuity from New-52 would be carried over, similar to how Batman and Green Lantern always retains a good chunk of their history.

    Superman's identity is secret. His adoptive Parents are dead.

    The Phantom Zone returns to a Pre-Crisis style.

    Return of the Love Triangle: Clark Kent is dating Lana Lang, who's suspected that he's Superman for some time. Meanwhile, he is drawn to Lois Lane in his Superman-guise, preventing his relationship with Lana from going anywhere. Eventually comes to a head and him and Lana breaks up. Foreswears relationships for a while after - focusing on work.


    Kryptonite
    --------------
    Green = physical death,
    Red = Mental disease and disabilities, new variation every exposure. (i.e schizophrenia, depression, autism)
    Blue= deadly to bizarro, temporary power-up for Superman
    Black = unleashes dark nature, kryptonian most overcome with a mental battle
    Gold = temporarily nullifies solar-powers


    Magic is no longer more dangerous to Superman than to anyone else. I.e, he will have problems with a spell that causes neural pains when fighting crime, but he won't be hurt by a flame-ball created to harm a normal human.


    *(If you recall, the genetic refining/engineering thing was actually a part of Byrne's reboot)
    **(So a somewhat less powerful Superman than New-52)
    ***(for a look at what the new Planet would be like, check out the new Bugle that Bendis created:
    )

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If Siegel and Shuster had picked a different name for their creation, such as the Champion, I wonder if there would have been as much pressure for him to be the SUPERman. He still would've been the same character, he still would have influenced the comic industry to go into costumed hero overdrive, there still would have been copycats like Captain Marvel putting pressure on the Champion to keep upping his game. But I wonder if he would have had to sustain that image as the most powerful of the powerful.

    I look at a character like Captain America--the Super-Soldier--who I think of as being a super-powered hero (and his powers were near the level of the early Superman when he was created); yet I always see him compared with Batman, who I don't think of as a super-powered hero.

    I don't know where I'm going with this. And I might be playing devil's advocate. But it's always tempting to think about the what-ifs.
    Valid question. But I'd also ask, IMO: why isn't he today? Why does the whole "humanize Superman" issue have to involve his power levels? I don't think that, in order to "be more human and relatable" (and for starters, he's NOT human), there has to be a top his powers can't pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    Awesome thread here - tons of great ideas. = )

    All right! Here's my take on it:

    Krypton was a hostile environment to the Kryptonians - but they flourished eventually. Kryptonians were Golden Age -level of Physical and mental Marvel's, caused by centuries of genetic engineering*.

    When exposed to red Sunlight Superman returns to Golden Age power-levels.

    When coming to Earth, Superman's powers slowly increase to Post-Crisis levels.** Morrison-Morales Origin - it works well.
    Clark Kent works at the Daily Planet, but it is nowadays a digital news-service, no print.***

    Lex Luthor - An arms-dealer who has a global reach, his dirty hands in blackwater style security firms. Secretly fomenting conflict for personal gain and as a science experiment.
    He is also a genius inventor and his unique advanced weapons are highly sought after on the black market.

    Most of the continuity from New-52 would be carried over, similar to how Batman and Green Lantern always retains a good chunk of their history.

    Superman's identity is secret. His adoptive Parents are dead.

    The Phantom Zone returns to a Pre-Crisis style.

    Return of the Love Triangle: Clark Kent is dating Lana Lang, who's suspected that he's Superman for some time. Meanwhile, he is drawn to Lois Lane in his Superman-guise, preventing his relationship with Lana from going anywhere. Eventually comes to a head and him and Lana breaks up. Foreswears relationships for a while after - focusing on work.


    Kryptonite
    --------------
    Green = physical death,
    Red = Mental disease and disabilities, new variation every exposure. (i.e schizophrenia, depression, autism)
    Blue= deadly to bizarro, temporary power-up for Superman
    Black = unleashes dark nature, kryptonian most overcome with a mental battle
    Gold = temporarily nullifies solar-powers


    Magic is no longer more dangerous to Superman than to anyone else. I.e, he will have problems with a spell that causes neural pains when fighting crime, but he won't be hurt by a flame-ball created to harm a normal human.


    *(If you recall, the genetic refining/engineering thing was actually a part of Byrne's reboot)
    **(So a somewhat less powerful Superman than New-52)
    ***(for a look at what the new Planet would be like, check out the new Bugle that Bendis created:
    )
    I really dig your take on Luthor. A genius who's also an arms dealer (or viceversa) is simply great, and I bet he'd have most of the black market for himself. As for your comments on magic, I differ somewhat on its level of influence on Superman, but we agree on the basic premise. Which is why I think that Shazam can NOT defeat Superman in hand-to-hand combat. Shazam doesn't have "magical fists". He's very strong because of magic, which is different. Anyway...

    And yeah, in a society as sicentifically advanced as Krupton, it stands to reason that they'd delve into genetic engineering. Part of my vision as well.

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