View Poll Results: who is your favorite dick grayson persona and in your opinion his best role?

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  • Robin

    9 9.09%
  • Nightwing

    46 46.46%
  • Agenr 37

    33 33.33%
  • Batman

    11 11.11%
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  1. #76
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    Nightwing I really like the costume (blue&black modern costume) He's so cool and yeah, he's a Batman lite... what else anyone expect him to turn in to ? flash lite ? Green Lantern lite ? lol the guy is an apprentice of Batman, ofcourse he's gonna be a Batman lite and this is not a bad thing. You don't need to make him a super spy to make him look different from Batman, Just make good stories with this cool guy as Nightwing and everything will be ok.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I guess that's because nobody bothers to read his comic books?
    Maybe, but how funnier it is that unlike Nigthwing, Green Arrow actually got definite major storyarcs to his name?

  3. #78
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    Dick being Batman lite himself isn't the issue, it's that everything else is also Batman lite when it comes to Nightwing and that IS an issue. Creators will just reserve their best ideas and concepts for Batman as long as Nightwing continues to be Batman lite.

  4. #79
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    Dick being Batman lite himself isn't the issue, it's that everything else is also Batman lite when it comes to Nightwing and that IS an issue. Creators will just reserve their best ideas and concepts for Batman as long as Nightwing continues to be Batman lite.
    Yes, but doesn't have to be. Seeley is going to continue the trends of Grayson into this nightwing title it looks like. So we might actually get a Nightwing that deals more with espionage and infiltration rather than just being Batman lite!

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batarang View Post
    Nightwing I really like the costume (blue&black modern costume) He's so cool and yeah, he's a Batman lite... what else anyone expect him to turn in to ? flash lite ? Green Lantern lite ? lol the guy is an apprentice of Batman, ofcourse he's gonna be a Batman lite and this is not a bad thing. You don't need to make him a super spy to make him look different from Batman, Just make good stories with this cool guy as Nightwing and everything will be ok.
    Why would anyone wanna read Batman lite when they can just read the real deal? This is especially bad as the Nightwing identity was created for Dick when he was stepping out of Batman's shadow in a best selling property that didn't feature Batman. Going from that to another generic Batfamily member is quite the downgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    Yes, but doesn't have to be. Seeley is going to continue the trends of Grayson into this nightwing title it looks like. So we might actually get a Nightwing that deals more with espionage and infiltration rather than just being Batman lite!
    Agreed, if they can feature the Nightwing persona in some experimental stories, it will be the best of both worlds. It still sucks that many people didn't give Agent 37 a chance though. As long as Dick is being written well, who cares if he's Nightwing or not?

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I don't think the World is holding Nightwing's time with the Titans against him. I don't think anybody is, because like you said it was an identity created for that franchise. Taking Nightwing away from the Titans is where the problems began, because nothing of much value has been created in its place.
    So going on about 30 years of no potential shown is grossly inaccurate. We are talking about two runs, one ran afoul of a switchover to a bad writer and editor-in-chief that wanted Nightwing killed off, in the other Nightwing had the best sales he'd ever had, but owed this too crossovers that used Nightwing's supporting cast as canonfodder.

    The entire setup of that era for Nightwing is just not that unique. A lone vigilante in a corrupt city is a rehash of Batman's thing, there's no way around it. Daredevil might receive that criticism as well, but at least he's a part of a different company and canon. Dick is with DC. Bludhaven being labeled a worse city than Gotham is a pretty transparent attempt by the creative team to build up interest in it by comparing it to the much more well known fictional city, but it didn't really work because nobody cares about Bludhaven aside from Dixon-era Nightwing fans. Nightwing may have a more sunny outlook than Batman which is an interesting contrast, but it only goes so far, especially when his city lacks Gotham's distinct personality and his villains pale in comparison to the Joker, Two-Face, Mr. Freeze and the rest.
    Batman hasn't been the lone vigilante in long while, by the 90s they saw more use in growing the batfamily. Daredevil has NEVER been this. New York was already crowded when he was created. He shares his big bad with Spider-Man as mentioned.
    Last edited by DurararaFTW; 05-09-2016 at 01:03 AM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Agreed, if they can feature the Nightwing persona in some experimental stories, it will be the best of both worlds. It still sucks that many people didn't give Agent 37 a chance though. As long as Dick is being written well, who cares if he's Nightwing or not?
    I would actually more positive about the whole Agent 37 thing, if Grayson really was a spy series. There was sofar there was no real big spy story, and Dick is mostly doing Nightwing Stuff (Jumping from Roof Tops and beating up Bad Guys).

    And on Top of it he is really annoying in some issues.

  8. #83
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    So going on about 30 years of no potential shown is grossly inaccurate. We are talking about two runs, one ran afoul of a switchover to a bad writer and editor-in-chief that wanted Nightwing killed off, in the other Nightwing had the best sales he'd ever had, but owed this too crossovers that used Nightwing's supporting cast as canonfodder.
    I'm not really sure what you're saying here. Are you still including the Titans stuff in that 30 years?
    As for the Nightwing solo, it fell under the umbrella of the wider Batman franchise and rode that wave of popularity. I read the first four or so trades of the Dixon run, and it was nothing to write home about aside from that one issue Superman guest starred in. If it's all down hill from there, that's pretty telling. Post-Robin Dick should be a character utilized in the wider DCU and out of Batman's shadow, but him being sucked back into the Bat-Office pretty much ensured it would never happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Batman hasn't been the lone vigilante in long while, by the 90s they saw more use in growing the batfamily. Daredevil has NEVER been this. New York was already crowded when he was created. He shares his big bad with Spider-Man as mentioned.
    How big the Bat-Family gets in the comics doesn't really matter, especially when most of them don't make the transition to other media. The overall most popular and iconic view of Batman is either as a lone vigilante, or with a Robin (which Dick can no longer be in this scenario). And even in the comics, the spin off characters are often relegated to their own books, while Baman does his solo thing in his book. Nightwing in Bludhaven is always going to seem like a bland discount version in comparison.

    I've never really viewed Daredevil as being a Batman knockoff. Like you said, his set up is pretty different. Dixon era Nightwing seems kind of like a Daredevil knock off though, and nothing as good as Frank Miller's Daredevil run ever came out of it.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm not really sure what you're saying here. Are you still including the Titans stuff in that 30 years?
    But even when you look at the Titans there aren't that much Dick centric story lines (if we ignore the soap stuff).
    It is iirc only Judas contract and Titans Hunt where he had a really big role (and that is just because he is for some reason the only Titan who is not captured), and around Titans Hunt the series kind of lost what made it good.

    And both attempts to relaunch it were also not that great.

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    But even when you look at the Titans there aren't that much Dick centric story lines (if we ignore the soap stuff).
    It is iirc only Judas contract and Titans Hunt where he had a really big role (and that is just because he is for some reason the only Titan who is not captured), and around Titans Hunt the series kind of lost what made it good.

    And both attempts to relaunch it were also not that great.
    The soap stuff was a major part of the book though, so it's not easy to cast aside. Judas Contract was the climax to several of Dick's issues, including the schism between him and Bruce, his romance with Kory and the casting aside of the Robin identity. The latter was HUGE back then. He's also pretty much the main character of Annual #2, plays a big role in the first Blackfire arc as Kory's love interest, helps Donna reconnect with her past*, and other things.

    I agree that the Titans franchise is a pale imitation of its former self, started to suck around Titans Hunt and any attempts at a revival are pretty much doomed to failure. The Titans franchise may no longer be the best place for Nightwing (and maybe they should retire the property altogether, barring flashbacks), but moving him back to the Batman world isn't desirable either. Grayson at least made it work by using Morrison's toys, which Dick has kind of an equal claim to considering the large part he played in that run.

    *Just because Dick wasn't as good a detective as Bruce doesn't mean he was a slouch, not matter how much they tried to downplay it to prop up Tim.

  11. #86
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    Personally, I think Richard John Grayson's BEST alternate persona is Nightwing and that's what I voted for. He "moved on" from the Robin title, chose Nightwing, moved to Batman in "Prodigal", back to Nightwing, then won the "Battle for the Cowl", returned to Nightwing, then went on to "Grayson" Agent of Spyral #37, and NOW finally Back to his rightful place as Nightwing.

    Reading all of his solo series, his Grayson run, and, of course his time as Batman, while Bruce was time-hopping, I feel as if his Nightwing monniker is his "Best" place in the DC/Bat Universe. It seems to me that the writers all "write him" as being more, for lack of a better word, "happy" as Nightwing. It's where he's most comforable, and above all else, he seems to me as being Batman's best "Number 1" (STTNG plug).

    Just my opinion.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    plays a big role in the first Blackfire arc as Kory's love interest, helps Donna reconnect with her past*, and other things.
    But one was essentially a story about Kory and the other about Donna. I think in general that most of the big story arcs revolved somehow around Raven, Donna or Kory. Dicks had big roles in some of these stories but they where hardly ever about him.


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I agree that the Titans franchise is a pale imitation of its former self, started to suck around Titans Hunt and any attempts at a revival are pretty much doomed to failure.
    The newer stories that were set before Titans Hunt, like THE NEW TEEN TITANS: GAMES or CONVERGENCE: NEW TEEN TITANS #1 are imo as good as original.
    Last edited by Aahz; 05-09-2016 at 02:12 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Why would anyone wanna read Batman lite when they can just read the real deal? This is especially bad as the Nightwing identity was created for Dick when he was stepping out of Batman's shadow in a best selling property that didn't feature Batman. Going from that to another generic Batfamily member is quite the downgrade.
    Why do people read Daredevil ? he is a Batman lite... but if you ask some, they will disagree. This can happen for Nightwing too with good writers. I have the omnibuses of that best selling property and let me tell you, it didn't age well. Nightwing by Chuck Dixon is far superior to that.

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    But one was essentially a story about Kory and the other about Donna. I think in general that most of the big story arcs revolved somehow around Raven, Donna or Kory. Dicks had big roles in some of these stories but they where hardly ever about him.


    The newer stories that were set before Titans Hunt, like THE NEW TEEN TITANS: GAMES or CONVERGENCE: NEW TEEN TITANS #1 are imo as good as original.
    I did like GAMES, so I'm in agreement there. But Marv Wolfman can't write this franchise forever. They need some new blood on the title desperately. But the thing his, if the Titans used aren't the original group, it doesn't really feel like the Titans. But bringing the characters back together usually doesn't lead to anything good. So, they're kind of stuck in a rut.

    Hmm, you're kind of right that the big story arcs revolved around the girls, except JUDAS CONTRACT which had Gar play a big role for obvious reasons. But with their respective backgrounds (demons/horror, mythology and space opera) lending themselves to more exciting stories, I can see why the girls would be the focal point for a lot of arcs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batarang View Post
    Why do people read Daredevil ? he is a Batman lite... but if you ask some, they will disagree. This can happen for Nightwing too with good writers. I have the omnibuses of that best selling property and let me tell you, it didn't age well. Nightwing by Chuck Dixon is far superior to that.
    Idk, I don't read Daredevil beyond the Frank Miller run, but I'm sure his fanbase would view him as not being Batman lite. As for the Titans, yeah it's dated as hell, but as long as you read it with a "80s old school" filter on, it's still damn good comics that have a lot of historical value and character development. Whereas Dixon's Nightwing run didn't have characters or villains as memorable as Starfire, Cyborg, Deathstroke, Trigonetc. , and didn't compete with the X-Men at its peak. Nor was it adapted into a very popular cartoon.

  15. #90
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Nightwing is my favorite persona for Grayson.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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