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  1. #1426
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I dont even understand what sony "lost" in the spider=man deal anyway.

    From what we know... marvel has full creative control of JUST spider-man it seems (judging from this venom news)... but Sony keeps all the profits from it.
    It seems like Sony retained ultimate creative control over Spider-Man in the deal in the first place. There probably is something in there, however, that Marvel gets a lion share of input on Spider-Man if he's involved in the cinematic universe. This likely explains why Sony is pushing out films tied to the character but set outside the cinematic universe. We're getting an animated property and a Venom movie. I just think it is a huge mistake to make a Venom movie without having a Spider-Man solo flick come out with him wearing the suit.

    I think the logic behind Marvel's decision was quite simple: if Spider-Man is in future films, the popularity of the character can help mitigate the loss of Robert Downey Jr., when he retires after Infinity War (he'll have played the role for eleven years and been in more movies than Hugh Jackman had as Wolverine, not counting his cameo in First Class) and they can retire one wise-cracking genius for another more likable one. Sony only gets the profits of the solo Spider-Man films, which, if they continue to be good, only continue to drive his popularity upwards. Sony agreed because it brings in a popular franchise into their Spider-Man ones.

    Marvel is basically giving Sony free money just so they can use Spidey in avengers and just so Sony quits messing up their marque character,.
    Sony doesn't have any of the merchandising rights for Spider-Man. They sold them along with the television rights a while back. I think Marvel made the smart business decision to try to play a hand in the most visible aspect of the property, the movies, to make more money on the merchandising rights, such as toys and video game licenses. If people become sick of Spider-Man as a character, that affects their bottom line as well. It is a win for Marvel as well (in addition to the movie related stuff listed above).

    On the surface it seems like a win win win win win for sony.
    The real question is: will Spider-Man: Homecoming return Spider-Man's box office prowess to the near billion dollar club (adjusting for inflation) that the first and last Raimi movies did? At what point will Sony consider the movie to be a success? They wanted The Amazing Spider-Man 2 to make a billion dollars and it seemed it needed at least Spider-Man 3 level money in order to actually make money. It didn't. Of course, The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had a bloated budget of over $250 million and a marketing budget that was likely just as bloated.. Sony has shown a lot more restraint with their marketing strategy this time around. Perhaps they'll be okay with the modest success of the first The Amazing Spider-Man. My concern is what options Sony has to back out if they view the film to have under-performed. My hope is that there is little that can be done. Well, my actual hope is the film is good and it does well. But...still...

    I also think that it seems like a win, win, win, win for Marvel as well. At least...so far. Again, it depends on what happens with the above. However, if this deal is rock-solid, which I hope it is, it seems like one of the best deals for both parties that have been made in Hollywood for years. Both sides come out, perhaps not mutually better off, but way better off than they were when they made the deal. It just shocks me that Fox seems unwilling to come to the table for discussions after this. But I guess they feel like they've come out properly ahead with Deadpool and Logan, which were two properties that were unlikely to be made within the confines of a cinematic universe like Marvel's.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    THat has been a rumor/fan theory for awhile.

    He gets symbiote suit out in space and Spidey 2 deals with it and Venom.

    But if Sony is going to introduce venom.....
    I really doubt that Venom will be set in the cinematic universe if Feige isn't producing it. Given that he isn't, I have a feeling that the property is going to manipulated in a way to ensure that Venom exists without Spider-Man. At that point, though, it doesn't really seem like Venom. I really wish Sony would just make a movie of Silver Sable or Black Cat. If they make a Venom movie set outside the cinematic universe, Marvel will probably be reticent to use him, which is a shame because two of Spider-Man's best villains (Carnage and Venom) are symbiotes. I sincerely hope that this film gets canned or otherwise pushed back to 2019, after Marvel can exercise some input and get Spider-Man to have the suit first.
    Last edited by TheDarman; 03-17-2017 at 12:21 PM.
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  2. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ossie View Post
    As for Bale as Adam Warlock? Well, as long as no-one stands in his light I'm sure he'd be fine
    Quote Originally Posted by DeathGods View Post
    Christian Bale works with auteur directors and Marvel Studio rarely hires them.
    I never considered those factors. Thanks for the feedback.

  3. #1428
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I actually think they have been very consistent.

    - Kurse strength was just keeping with the comics.

    - Thor can't use a lot of his powers if he is surrounded by people. Why is why I am hoping the gladiator arena allows him to unleash a good bit.

    - I don't think Stark has fought any normal humans post IM1... he really only fought drones in IM2 and he was fighting extremis dudes in IM3. Avengers he seemed to mow down Chitauri and Ultron bots just fine


    IM seems to be the only character that fluctuates though. Normal humans get wrecked by peak humans (bucky obliterating well... everyone but stalemates tchalla, T'challa punking Clint), peak humans got wrecked by Spider-Man (poor bucky), and Thor/Hulk are just on a whole other level.

    IM floats between the peak humans and thor hulk just based on what armor he is in and how damaged that armor was. CW made it very clear i the final fight that his armor was damaged before he took both bcuk and cap on.
    MCU Spider-Man definitely reminds me of Roger Stern's Spidey from the 1980's. That is a great thing, IMO!

    As far as Stark goes, the poor guy has unchecked PTSD. He gon' need some type of intervention, soon.

    Mentoring Pete, and dating Aunt May might help.



    Aunt May is hot now....damn.

  4. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Correct me if Im wrong but didnt Kevin Feige say that he's not interested in pulling the mutants into the MCU anyway?

    I agree with him. The mutants being hated and feared works really well when they're the only superhumans in the world, but it makes no sense when you've got aliens, gods, super soldiers and spider people running around, all of whom get a free pass and social acceptance. Plus the MCU already has the Inhumans for the "hated and feared" thing if Marvel wants to explore that route.

    Let Fox keep the mutants, they're doing a decent job with them anyway. Not great, and they've got at least as many misses as hits (likely more but Im trying to be nice).

    The Fantastic Four on the other hand I'd love to see back home with Marvel. I dont think it'll happen any time soon though. Fox seems determined to keep their hands on the property despite never making any real profit from it.
    Like you, I want the FF in the MCU.

    I want to see the heroes playing cards with Ben Grimm.

    A world filled with various super-powered beings, but only the mutants being stigmatized just shows the absurdity of bigotry.

    Also, the mutants are terrible with PR. IIRC, Xavier admitted his lack of charisma during his televised debate with Bolivar Trask in the first Sentinel comic story back when Stan & Jack were on the book. Both Storm & Magneto missed out in huge opportunities to further the mutant cause (or just bad writing by the creative teams) when they held serious political power.

  5. #1430
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    A world filled with various super-powered beings, but only the mutants being stigmatized just shows the absurdity of bigotry.

    Also, the mutants are terrible with PR. IIRC, Xavier admitted his lack of charisma during his televised debate with Bolivar Trask in the first Sentinel comic story back when Stan & Jack were on the book. Both Storm & Magneto missed out in huge opportunities to further the mutant cause (or just bad writing by the creative teams) when they held serious political power.
    I hope we never see the mutants in the MCU. It'd throw such a wrench into things.

    I like the mutants way more than the Inhumans, but the Inhumans make more sense for being hated and feared in the wider MU/MCU. Insofar as any bigotry makes sense at least. They have their own nation and culture, they're part alien, and most of them look like monsters. Makes more sense for the small minded to fear and hate them than it does the small minded hating a random kid in New York who manifested mutation but is still ultimately a kid from NY, with all the social conformity and cultural views you'd expect.

    Now, the Nuhumans, Im not sure how they fit into things (I dont really read any Inhumans books). They seem (thematically) more like mutants than Inhumans, with few of the typical Inhuman trappings and many of the same story hooks as a mutant.

    Give me the FF in the MCU, if only because it would allow Marvel to use Doom. But the mutants can stay with Fox forever for all I care.
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  6. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I hope we never see the mutants in the MCU. It'd throw such a wrench into things.

    I like the mutants way more than the Inhumans, but the Inhumans make more sense for being hated and feared in the wider MU/MCU. Insofar as any bigotry makes sense at least. They have their own nation and culture, they're part alien, and most of them look like monsters. Makes more sense for the small minded to fear and hate them than it does the small minded hating a random kid in New York who manifested mutation but is still ultimately a kid from NY, with all the social conformity and cultural views you'd expect.

    Now, the Nuhumans, Im not sure how they fit into things (I dont really read any Inhumans books). They seem (thematically) more like mutants than Inhumans, with few of the typical Inhuman trappings and many of the same story hooks as a mutant.

    Give me the FF in the MCU, if only because it would allow Marvel to use Doom. But the mutants can stay with Fox forever for all I care.
    I would be surprised if we ever see the mutants in the MCU.

    This means Black Panther needs a new love not named Storm.

    I really want the FF in the MCU.

    I want Reed front & center again.

    To me, Reed is the Doctor Who of Marvel, the cosmic bogey man advanced alien races fear.

    I want to see Ben's charisma finally shine (plus a fight with the Hulk), Johnny team up with Spider-Man (as a stand alone film), and Sue keeping her three knuckleheads in line.

    Reed vs Doom should be the spandex version of the Doctor vs the Master.

    Hell, I'd like to see the Frightful Four.

  7. #1432
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Idk if you guys have seen this already but I think it's pretty cool.


  8. #1433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Correct me if Im wrong but didnt Kevin Feige say that he's not interested in pulling the mutants into the MCU anyway?

    I agree with him. The mutants being hated and feared works really well when they're the only superhumans in the world, but it makes no sense when you've got aliens, gods, super soldiers and spider people running around, all of whom get a free pass and social acceptance. Plus the MCU already has the Inhumans for the "hated and feared" thing if Marvel wants to explore that route.

    Let Fox keep the mutants, they're doing a decent job with them anyway. Not great, and they've got at least as many misses as hits (likely more but Im trying to be nice).

    The Fantastic Four on the other hand I'd love to see back home with Marvel. I dont think it'll happen any time soon though. Fox seems determined to keep their hands on the property despite never making any real profit from it.
    I just want to see Doctor Doom and Galactus as major MCU villains. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

  9. #1434
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Has there been any news on when FF can return to Marvel? I mean Fox has botched them twice. I'm ok with them having the X-Men after seeing Logan but they have failed twice now with the Fantastic Four. And they would be a perfect fit into the MCU. And to see Dr. Doom done well would be awesome
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  10. #1435
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    Fox has great plans for another FF movie :-)

  11. #1436
    Niffleheim
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    Does anybody know what happened to Marvel's Empire of the Dead at AMC? Is this still happening?

  12. #1437
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Has there been any news on when FF can return to Marvel? I mean Fox has botched them twice. I'm ok with them having the X-Men after seeing Logan but they have failed twice now with the Fantastic Four. And they would be a perfect fit into the MCU. And to see Dr. Doom done well would be awesome
    Three times, actually. There was the original FF film in the....early 00's (?), the Silver Surfer sequel, and then the one from last year or 2015 or whenever it came out.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathGods View Post
    Fox has great plans for another FF movie :-)
    That's what I hear.

    I can see why Fox is reluctant to release the rights; comic movies are huge bank when they're successful and the FF is a strong license. But after this many years without a single film that could be called even partly successful, I have to wonder why they're still trying. Why not just double down on the X-Men (which they seem to maybe be doing anyway) or try to pick up the rights to another property? There's several great characters at Image who might be available (Invincible seems perfect), not to mention Dark Horse, Dynamite!, BOOM!.....hell, I'm sure Morrison would be willing to work with Fox to turn his Klaus mini into a film, and that'd be a perfect Christmas movie, with a superhero/folk lore mashup we haven't really seen in live action cinema yet. And we almost never see superhero movies that time of year so competition would be low.

    At this point, holding onto the FF just seems to be a matter of spite. I mean, holding onto an IP so the competition can't use it is a common business practice, but how is Fox *not* losing money on this?

    Unless they're holding onto the rights for tax deductions. Im sure every time the FF failed to make money Fox got a huge write-off on their tax forms.
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  13. #1438
    All-New Member 2cats's Avatar
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    do you think the MCU is politically timely?

    2008-IronMan: US war crimes scandal
    2012-Avengers: Rise of nationlism
    2013- IronMan 3: Terrorism
    2014-Guardians of the Galaxy: Refugee crisis
    2014-CA: Winter Soldier: Survillance
    2015- Avengers Age f Ultron: workforce replaced by IA

    to name a few examples.

    I wonder if this is why it is more popular than other franchises.

  14. #1439
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Three times, actually. There was the original FF film in the....early 00's (?), the Silver Surfer sequel, and then the one from last year or 2015 or whenever it came out.



    That's what I hear.

    I can see why Fox is reluctant to release the rights; comic movies are huge bank when they're successful and the FF is a strong license. But after this many years without a single film that could be called even partly successful, I have to wonder why they're still trying. Why not just double down on the X-Men (which they seem to maybe be doing anyway) or try to pick up the rights to another property? There's several great characters at Image who might be available (Invincible seems perfect), not to mention Dark Horse, Dynamite!, BOOM!.....hell, I'm sure Morrison would be willing to work with Fox to turn his Klaus mini into a film, and that'd be a perfect Christmas movie, with a superhero/folk lore mashup we haven't really seen in live action cinema yet. And we almost never see superhero movies that time of year so competition would be low.

    At this point, holding onto the FF just seems to be a matter of spite. I mean, holding onto an IP so the competition can't use it is a common business practice, but how is Fox *not* losing money on this?

    Unless they're holding onto the rights for tax deductions. Im sure every time the FF failed to make money Fox got a huge write-off on their tax forms.
    Oh yea.. completely forgot about that Silver Surfer. I've never even seen it and from what I hear, I probably shouldn't lol

    Yeah that really is frustrating. Although ever since Feige got autonomy from Ike, it seems like Disney and Fox have been getting along a lot better. They exchanged characters for Guardians and Deadpool and are co-producing multiple live action series. I think things are looking slightly better on that front

    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    do you think the MCU is politically timely?

    2008-IronMan: US war crimes scandal
    2012-Avengers: Rise of nationlism
    2013- IronMan 3: Terrorism
    2014-Guardians of the Galaxy: Refugee crisis
    2014-CA: Winter Soldier: Survillance
    2015- Avengers Age f Ultron: workforce replaced by IA

    to name a few examples.

    I wonder if this is why it is more popular than other franchises.
    Eh I think you might be reading too much into it there lol
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  15. #1440
    Peter Scott SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Oh yea.. completely forgot about that Silver Surfer. I've never even seen it and from what I hear, I probably shouldn't lol

    For me, Rise of the Silver Surfer was enjoyable. It's not great or anything special, but I'd say it's definitely better than it's predecessor. Johnny Storm and Silver Surfer are stand out characters and performances. The Thing is entertaining enough and Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman are okay-ish. Doom does some Doom-y(??) things.

    Galactus was a massive disappointment. But you have to understand that special effects of that time probably couldn't bring Galactus to life, and the budget was probably relatively low.

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