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  1. #1441
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    do you think the MCU is politically timely?

    2008-IronMan: US war crimes scandal
    2012-Avengers: Rise of nationlism
    2013- IronMan 3: Terrorism
    2014-Guardians of the Galaxy: Refugee crisis
    2014-CA: Winter Soldier: Survillance
    2015- Avengers Age f Ultron: workforce replaced by IA

    to name a few examples.

    I wonder if this is why it is more popular than other franchises.
    I will give you IM3 (which is actually hella deep and scary lol) and Winter Soldier (ditto)... but the others are a super reach lol
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  2. #1442
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    Age of Ultron touched on artificial intelligence. That's a VERY real concern. We're much more advanced in that area than most people realize. Have you ever heard of the D-wave Quantum Computer? I don't think those people are being completely honest with us useless eaters about what it's capable of. We're not far from Skynet, in my opinion.

  3. #1443
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    do you think the MCU is politically timely?

    2008-IronMan: US war crimes scandal
    2012-Avengers: Rise of nationlism
    2013- IronMan 3: Terrorism
    2014-Guardians of the Galaxy: Refugee crisis
    2014-CA: Winter Soldier: Survillance
    2015- Avengers Age f Ultron: workforce replaced by IA

    to name a few examples.

    I wonder if this is why it is more popular than other franchises.
    I don't understand the ones for Avenger and Guardians of the Galaxy, but I can agree to an extent that these themes are prevalent. Someone (don't remember the article) did call CA:CW an allegory to Muslims in America and other parts of the Western World, and a commenter on a website compared TDW to colonialism (though I don't understand/see it). But for me the most relevant MCU movies have been IM3 and TWS and the latter really knocked it out of the park in exploring the theme without taking itself to seriously, being to dull and just coming off as pretentious like another superhero movie that shall not be named. But really, the MCU isn't that political I think.

  4. #1444
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    I feel like you'd be more accurate to maybe argue that the first IM was more about the military industrial complex and PMC's.

  5. #1445
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    So uh, Anthony Mackie said this about tv/movie crossovers...

    Different universes, different worlds, different companies, different designs. Kevin Feige is very specific about how he wants the Marvel Universe to be seen in the film world. It wouldn’t work. It wouldn’t work at all.
    I mean I guess but different universes and different worlds? Is that really what we've been seeing here?

    Also some GotG stills!







    Also, James Gunn on Ego's planet form:

    We have over a trillion polygons on Ego’s planet,” Gunn proudly tells the mag. “It’s the biggest visual effect of all time. There’s nothing even close to it. Which is cool.

  6. #1446
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    So uh, Anthony Mackie said this about tv/movie crossovers...



    I mean I guess but different universes and different worlds? Is that really what we've been seeing here?
    Two different worlds in the same universe.

    We've been over this but movie characters have directly crossed over into AoS on more than one occasions. AoS plot carried directly over to AoU.

    The TV shows essentially just play in the movie playground.

    Unless it is going to matter, I don't want them to crossover anyway. Use elements to enhance the story being told and nothign more. DD punching on alien in Infinity Warisn't going to add to the experience at all.
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  7. #1447
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    do you think the MCU is politically timely?

    2008-IronMan: US war crimes scandal
    2012-Avengers: Rise of nationlism
    2013- IronMan 3: Terrorism
    2014-Guardians of the Galaxy: Refugee crisis
    2014-CA: Winter Soldier: Survillance
    2015- Avengers Age f Ultron: workforce replaced by IA

    to name a few examples.

    I wonder if this is why it is more popular than other franchises.
    Iron Man 1 subbed the Iraq War for the Korean War but principle is the same.

    TWS and IM3 are accurate but it's so overt I'm in the films that you couldn't mistake it for anything else.

    How GOTG has anything to do with the refugees, idk but if I'd love to hear your explanation of you have one. Avengers isn't chest pumping nationalism. Nothing in the film screamed American awesomeness. Unlike say the TF movies. I cover AoU below.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Age of Ultron touched on artificial intelligence. That's a VERY real concern. We're much more advanced in that area than most people realize. Have you ever heard of the D-wave Quantum Computer? I don't think those people are being completely honest with us useless eaters about what it's capable of. We're not far from Skynet, in my opinion.
    The AI thing has been covered so many times already and Age of Ultron didn't have anything new to say. More of a trend/trope of machines killing humanity.

    Ultron - AoU
    Sknet - Terminator series
    Sentinels - X-Men Days Of Future Past
    Sentinels - The Matrix
    Cylons - Battlestar Galactica
    Androids - Dragon Ball Z
    Repliods - Megaman X
    Replicants - Blade Runner
    Cybermen - Doctor Who
    Borg - Star Trek

    Man of Steel 2 is said to have Brainiac as the villain and he's very much like many of the aforementioned AI.

    Rinse, Reuse, Recycle and Repeat

    Yawn

  8. #1448
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Two different worlds in the same universe.

    We've been over this but movie characters have directly crossed over into AoS on more than one occasions. AoS plot carried directly over to AoU.

    The TV shows essentially just play in the movie playground.

    Unless it is going to matter, I don't want them to crossover anyway. Use elements to enhance the story being told and nothign more. DD punching on alien in Infinity Warisn't going to add to the experience at all.
    This.

    Its the same world, just different neighborhoods, and there just isnt a ton of crossover. And in previous pages in this thread we've discussed the obvious and the subtle back and forth between films and tv. Like, I never noticed that in Winter Soldier, Fury cuts his way out of his SUV with a device that was created on Agents of SHIELD. So cross pollination exists, they just dont go overboard with it, which is the smart business move. Movies cost too much to make to spend much time plugging a tv show. And the Netflix stuff isn't close to the same family-friendly rating, so that aspect of the MCU is never going to be mentioned elsewhere. Not to mention the legal hoops you have to jump through to get characters in another format. There's a reason we've only seen lesser movie characters on the tv side of things; contracts trump wishful thinking or cool factors.

    And ultimately, is the division all that different from the real world? I hear about what happens in Paris when something major goes down, like a terrorist attack, but generally I have no idea what is happening on that side of the planet. Is that so different from the MCU? Are we really expecting Tony Stark to not only be aware of a couple mid-level superhumans in Hell's Kitchen but to take the time in a movie to launch a few lines of dialogue about them? What would that even gain us? I'd rather that screen time be spent on the movie in question, honestly.

    When it comes to cross pollination, I think the only place the MCU has really failed is with the Inhumans. If there are dozens of new enhanced individuals popping up (which is still a lot considering how small the super-population is in the MCU), and people are getting stuck in weird cocoons and not always living through it, I'd expect a reference to that when discussing the Sokovia Accords, or when the Defenders are talking about the other superhumans out there (which we saw in Jessica's show).
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  9. #1449
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    I find that to be a lazy copout on Marvel's part honestly. Don't brag about "it's all connected" if it's only a one-way street.

  10. #1450
    All-New Member 2cats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post

    How GOTG has anything to do with the refugees, idk but if I'd love to hear your explanation of you have one. Avengers isn't chest pumping nationalism. Nothing in the film screamed American awesomeness. Unlike say the TF movies. I cover AoU below.


    The AI thing has been covered so many times already and Age of Ultron didn't have anything new to say. More of a trend/trope of machines killing humanity.
    Every member of GOTG is a unique or last being of a type. Some were recruited forcefully while others are wandering the galaxy, but all are in that situation because the machine of war (Thanos) left them without a place to call home. They are treated like scum and see as delinquents, they do what they gotta do to survive, they end up in prison. But in the final battle Star-Lord saves another planet from being absorbed in the conflict with his homeland culture, not fighting. In 2014 the global number of refugees equated the one of WWII, back then the hosting countries were more welcoming under the logic that well-educated refugees could enhance the overall production of the country. (Hope this doesn't count as a spoiler.)

    Avengers is about nationalism, not USA nationalism in particular, and it is more a cautionary tale in that regard. I don't think Marvel design its products thinking in the USA alone anymore. Since Thor (2011) every new movie grossed 50%+ from foreign markets of its total revenue.

    I agree with you that Ultron isn't the cuspid of originality. What makes it worth mentioning was the time of realese. 2015 was the year when we got headlines like this: Experts predict robots will take over 30% of our jobs by 2025 — and white-collar jobs aren't immune

  11. #1451
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    Every member of GOTG is a unique or last being of a type. Some were recruited forcefully while others are wandering the galaxy, but all are in that situation because the machine of war (Thanos) left them without a place to call home. They are treated like scum and see as delinquents, they do what they gotta do to survive, they end up in prison. But in the final battle Star-Lord saves another planet from being absorbed in the conflict with his homeland culture, not fighting. In 2014 the global number of refugees equated the one of WWII, back then the hosting countries were more welcoming under the logic that well-educated refugees could enhance the overall production of the country. (Hope this doesn't count as a spoiler.)
    Peter Quill still has his home planets. Earth and Ego (Hahaha). As for the others, Rocket is an Earth raccoon, Groot is one of a kind, and Drax's world is gone. I forget the MCU story for Gamora. Not really a commentary on refugees. If anything, they are like Superman; immigrants from different planets. Trope for the GOTG is that they are wandering misfits, in a big universe. As the GOTG don't live on any specific planet, they are not contributing or receiving support in any way from a sovereign government.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    Avengers is about nationalism, not USA nationalism in particular, and it is more a cautionary tale in that regard. I don't think Marvel design its products thinking in the USA alone anymore. Since Thor (2011) every new movie grossed 50%+ from foreign markets of its total revenue.
    I don't see that as nationalism parallel you describe. The villain is a would be tyrant, with an army of space orcs. The Avengers aren't yet a team but misfits that have to be brought together to defend Earth from being conquered.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    I agree with you that Ultron isn't the cuspid of originality. What makes it worth mentioning was the time of realese. 2015 was the year when we got headlines like this: Experts predict robots will take over 30% of our jobs by 2025 — and white-collar jobs aren't immune
    That would be the case, if Ultron wasn't a genocidal mass murder and instead was a synthetic being trying to be human. You know, the Pinocchio story. Which Vision fits much better. Also Data from Star Trek TNG is another well known example. A synthetic life form being superior to humans and with the potential of replacing them.

  12. #1452
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    This.

    Its the same world, just different neighborhoods, and there just isnt a ton of crossover. And in previous pages in this thread we've discussed the obvious and the subtle back and forth between films and tv. Like, I never noticed that in Winter Soldier, Fury cuts his way out of his SUV with a device that was created on Agents of SHIELD. So cross pollination exists, they just dont go overboard with it, which is the smart business move. Movies cost too much to make to spend much time plugging a tv show. And the Netflix stuff isn't close to the same family-friendly rating, so that aspect of the MCU is never going to be mentioned elsewhere. Not to mention the legal hoops you have to jump through to get characters in another format. There's a reason we've only seen lesser movie characters on the tv side of things; contracts trump wishful thinking or cool factors.

    And ultimately, is the division all that different from the real world? I hear about what happens in Paris when something major goes down, like a terrorist attack, but generally I have no idea what is happening on that side of the planet. Is that so different from the MCU? Are we really expecting Tony Stark to not only be aware of a couple mid-level superhumans in Hell's Kitchen but to take the time in a movie to launch a few lines of dialogue about them? What would that even gain us? I'd rather that screen time be spent on the movie in question, honestly.

    When it comes to cross pollination, I think the only place the MCU has really failed is with the Inhumans. If there are dozens of new enhanced individuals popping up (which is still a lot considering how small the super-population is in the MCU), and people are getting stuck in weird cocoons and not always living through it, I'd expect a reference to that when discussing the Sokovia Accords, or when the Defenders are talking about the other superhumans out there (which we saw in Jessica's show).
    It is probably telling that Whedon was involved in both AoS and AoU... so "little things" like the SUV cutter showing up in both and the AoS hellicarrier plot carried over into AoU are more likely to happen.

    And that was before Feige told Ike and the comic committee to F off and went over their heads too.

    Nobody likes it when someone goes over their head... I doubt Marvel Entertainment and Marvel Studios really have too much contact now.


    I honestly can't remember the "it is all connected" line being used in a long time?


    I honestly don't want them crossing over too much unless its meaningful. I don't need fan service unless its so minute it doesn't affect anything. If Sitwell or whatever name dropped Luke Cage then cool. But I don't need a movie diverting to Hell Kitchen for 5 minutes to see the Defenders punch something when movie screen time is so precious anyway

    But if T'challa is in NYC and wants to hire Luke Cage as a bodyguard then, well, I won't complain
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  13. #1453

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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    I find that to be a lazy copout on Marvel's part honestly. Don't brag about "it's all connected" if it's only a one-way street.
    That was always a Marvel TV tag line and not a Marvel Studios one. And they're basically separate companies now.

  14. #1454
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    so

    much

    color


    It is like Feige got on 4chan and head all the whiney 4channers "thu movie look so drab" complaints and just went "hold my beer" and gave us this and Ragnorak lol
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  15. #1455
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post



    so

    much

    color


    It is like Feige got on 4chan and head all the whiney 4channers "thu movie look so drab" complaints and just went "hold my beer" and gave us this and Ragnorak lol
    Team's looking good .

    Loving Mantis here .

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