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  1. #3406
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I wanna see a long, high level, magic duel. Throwing spells at each other.

    Like Dumbledoor vs Voldermort




    but... better (aka book version)... and without Strange looking like a scared bitch the whole time (aka book version) lol
    I think one of the "musts" for the sequel is definitely going to be a duel between Strange and Mordo.

  2. #3407
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    It's ok to not have everything spelled out. It's ok that different viewers can have different takes on what Hulk was feeling and what his motivations for not coming out were.
    Except nobody after the movie went, "hulk just didn't want ot help banner." That "fan" theory didn't exist until the russos pointed out what they were trying to get across.

    If 90% of the people came out of the movie going, "wow, hulk was scared of Thanos" it is safe to say the Russos missed the mark on what they were trying to portray.

    Personally, both work for me, and AFTER the fact, I can kind of see it... but that just isn't how it came across in the movie.

    But, if you want to be snubbish about it and think, "yep, I knew it!" knock yourself out


    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Phase Four has already been planned out without the Fox characters. The X-Men and FF won't show up until at least 2024.
    Plans change when game changing things happen.

    Marvel already had movies SCHEDULED and they pushed everything back to accommodate Spider-Man.

    So, a simple outlined planned is very very very easily changed. We must also remember... people like Feige and Russos and whoever are fans of the X-men and Co as well. they are going to fanboy out a little bit as well. This won't just be Iger and Co going, "do this now." They are going to want to play with their new (profitable) toys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    Ant-Man and the Wasp is underperforming but it's not a failure, we'll get an Ant-Man and the Wasp 2.

    The thing is whether this is "an ant-man movie" or not like a lot of marvel fans try to justify it underperforming doesn't matter. It has a very similar budget to doctor strange and it's not coming close strange's box office numbers.

    But it's not doing terrible either so I'm sure we'll get a third movie.
    FTR, I do not believe I said the movie failed.

    It's gonna make a nice profit and it is gonna make more than the first movie.

    It seems "underperformed" just because the movies preceding it, specifically IW and BP but also Ragnorak, SM, and GoG3... straight obliterated the box office.

    AM3 is likely but it may be farther away than it was 3 weeks ago. Just simply due to the influx of possible movies thanks the the Merger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think one of the "musts" for the sequel is definitely going to be a duel between Strange and Mordo.
    I keep forgetting about mordo.

    Hopefuelly it is more magic duel and less magic-fu duel
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  3. #3408
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Huh?

    With the merger, I don't know if we can 100% count on anything other than Spider-Man 2 and 3, Black Panther 2, and GoG3 at this point.

    that is what I said. I am talking abotu movies/ips. Marvel Studio is getting access to very popular mutants (and not so popular F4 lol) and they might not be "content" with Ant-Man's profits when they can turn around and pump out Wolverine and company instead (plus need to make their money bank after spending billions).

    SM, BP, and GoG are guaranteed to be unaffected by the merger thanks to ridiculous profits. Ant-Man doesn't have that protection.
    Ah, the way I read that I thought you were saying there'd be bigger changes than just a shift in movie line-up. I thought you meant changes in management and administration, etc.

    But the majority of phase 4 won't be impacted at all by the merger. They've already figured out what they're doing for the next several years, and won't have the legal rights to those IP's until next year (assuming someone doesn't save us all and stop the merger from happening). Even if they start pre-production the day the film rights revert, it'll be years before we see anything of real value (maybe a name drop or cameo at most?). And in the meantime they still have to keep churning out films.

    Yeah we'll see the Studio start working in characters and movies from the FF and X-corners of the MCU, but I doubt they'll drop the characters they've already invested in in favor of the new additions.

    And why would anyone think the FF and X-Men are better options in the first place? Days of Future Past and Deadpool seem to be the biggest earners for the mutants (according to a quick Google), and neither of them broke 800 M. And they're the biggest, most successful films the franchise can muster. Most of the X-movies haven't even made as much as the first Ant-Man did, and that was a very humble success. There's no precedent to believe that the new IP's will be more profitable than the ones Marvel is already using.

    Now, I'm sure that once Marvel *does* get around to making the X- and FF movies, they'll be huge hits and very profitable. But there's no real reason I can see that makes pushing them to the front of the production line the smart business move.
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  4. #3409
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ah, the way I read that I thought you were saying there'd be bigger changes than just a shift in movie line-up. I thought you meant changes in management and administration, etc.

    But the majority of phase 4 won't be impacted at all by the merger. They've already figured out what they're doing for the next several years, and won't have the legal rights to those IP's until next year (assuming someone doesn't save us all and stop the merger from happening). Even if they start pre-production the day the film rights revert, it'll be years before we see anything of real value (maybe a name drop or cameo at most?). And in the meantime they still have to keep churning out films.

    Yeah we'll see the Studio start working in characters and movies from the FF and X-corners of the MCU, but I doubt they'll drop the characters they've already invested in in favor of the new additions.

    And why would anyone think the FF and X-Men are better options in the first place? Days of Future Past and Deadpool seem to be the biggest earners for the mutants (according to a quick Google), and neither of them broke 800 M. And they're the biggest, most successful films the franchise can muster. Most of the X-movies haven't even made as much as the first Ant-Man did, and that was a very humble success. There's no precedent to believe that the new IP's will be more profitable than the ones Marvel is already using.

    Now, I'm sure that once Marvel *does* get around to making the X- and FF movies, they'll be huge hits and very profitable. But there's no real reason I can see that makes pushing them to the front of the production line the smart business move.
    1. Deadpool's profit margin is insane thanks to the very low budget. And they did that with an R rating. Deadpool is record breaking. In fact, from memory, most FoXmen movies are generally lower budget than the MCU.

    2. A lot of FoX-men's movies are older, before the international market blew up. You are better off looking at domestic totals to get a sense of popularity with them. You also have to take into account the "branding" for FoXmen doens't exist like it does for the MCU and they never generate any momentum because the movies come out every couple years of various quality. But even with that, domestically...

    - Deadpool is 13th comic book movie ALL TIME, beating out the likes of SM:HC and GoG for instance.
    - Deadpool 2 is 20th all time, beating out the likes of Thor Ragnorak and IM2 for instance
    - X-Men 3 and DOFP (28, 29) beat out Dr. Strange
    - Logan (32) and X2 (34), a rated R movie, beat out Thor 2

    for reference, AM/W sits around 42 ATM

    3. Some of the foxmen movies simply aren't good lol. A quick glance shows me that the ones that are generally rated well (DP, DP2, Logan, DOFP, X2) did pretty well at the box office with the exception of X3, which was the end of the trilogy and sunk the X movies for awhile.

    4. I think you are selling short the nostalgia factor when you combine that with the Marvel Studios hype machine.

    5. Disney needs to start getting money back on their very expensive investment.

    6. Now, if you wanna say the F4 aren't worth moving any movies for, I 100% agree lol
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  5. #3410
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    6. Now, if you wanna say the F4 aren't worth moving any movies for, I 100% agree lol
    I think one of the major problems Disney is going to run into filmwise with the FF is that they already have the Incredibles. The type of film FF SHOULD be they've already made, and anything they do now will *weirdly* seem derivative.
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  6. #3411
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    I think one of the major problems Disney is going to run into filmwise with the FF is that they already have the Incredibles. The type of film FF SHOULD be they've already made, and anything they do now will *weirdly* seem derivative.
    I would have no problem with the F4 never existing in the MCU and just using their villains lol

    No problem at all.

    F4 is waaaaaaaaaaaay at the bottom of the list of interesting properties for me.
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  7. #3412
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I would have no problem with the F4 never existing in the MCU and just using their villains lol

    No problem at all.

    F4 is waaaaaaaaaaaay at the bottom of the list of interesting properties for me.
    They're one of my favorite properties, but YMMV. Marvel doesn't really have a pure "adventure" movie in it's superhero flicks so maybe they can play up the "Lost In Space" type vibe.
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  8. #3413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    Ant-Man and the Wasp is underperforming but it's not a failure, we'll get an Ant-Man and the Wasp 2.

    The thing is whether this is "an ant-man movie" or not like a lot of marvel fans try to justify it underperforming doesn't matter. It has a very similar budget to doctor strange and it's not coming close strange's box office numbers.

    But it's not doing terrible either so I'm sure we'll get a third movie.
    AM&TW didn't "underperform."

    It's doing about 20% better than the original.

    People tend to forget that the first AM was not a monster hit. It was a successful film but it didn't blow the roof off the box office.

    The sequel is doing very well compared to what the first film did, which is the only yardstick that they would measure its performance by.

    Not hard to imagine that a third film will happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Except nobody after the movie went, "hulk just didn't want ot help banner." That "fan" theory didn't exist until the russos pointed out what they were trying to get across.

    If 90% of the people came out of the movie going, "wow, hulk was scared of Thanos" it is safe to say the Russos missed the mark on what they were trying to portray.

    Personally, both work for me, and AFTER the fact, I can kind of see it... but that just isn't how it came across in the movie.

    But, if you want to be snubbish about it and think, "yep, I knew it!" knock yourself out
    I'm not being "snobbish" in saying that I think ambiguity is ok.

    And I'm not saying I knew exactly what was in Hulk's mind. I didn't.

    I'm just saying it's ok that there was room for people to speculate and I don't see that as a flaw.

    Not every character motivation has to be underlined and spelled out.

    Especially in this case where there is more story on the way that will eventually bring those motivations into greater focus.

  9. #3414
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    Marvel can't start making plans for the Fox characters for at least another year. To do so would be collusion and it would undo government approval of the deal.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAAbbkE3WKA&t=211s

  10. #3415
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Marvel can't start making plans for the Fox characters for at least another year. To do so would be collusion and it would undo government approval of the deal.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAAbbkE3WKA&t=211s
    Which is why I'm hoping they jump they gun.

    They won't of course. Regretfully, Fiege is too smart for that. He's said several times he's not even worried about those IP's, and won't give them a thought until the Studio has the rights back.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    4. I think you are selling short the nostalgia factor when you combine that with the Marvel Studios hype machine.
    I could be. I do tend to undervalue nostalgia.

    5. Disney needs to start getting money back on their very expensive investment.
    This is very true, but they'll be doing that quickly enough with the mountain of stuff they're buying. They don't need to wait on Marvel Studios (though I'm sure they won't be dragging their feet either). And that's good; because even if Marvel started the day the ink was dry next year, it'll take years to get a movie into theaters.

    6. Now, if you wanna say the F4 aren't worth moving any movies for, I 100% agree lol
    We share a general disdain for the FF (outside of their villains, which I generally really like) and I doubt the IP is viewed as having much movie potential, given Fox's multiple failed attempts. But I do think the Studio will start working on the IP. They've certainly gone with lesser known, less "important" franchises.

    And I'm sure they'll start working on the X-Men too. I've no doubt. I just don't think we're going to see much juggling of future movies to get them here sooner. If Feige really does have plans reaching to 2025 or whenever, I very much doubt those plans are going to be changed very much. And really, there's no reason for them to. Even at its earliest, we wouldn't see one of the Fox properties until what, 2022-23?
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  11. #3416
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    Russos Seemingly Tease Red Skull Return to the MCU
    https://www.cbr.com/russos-tease-red-skull-return/

    Apparently, an Ironheart script exists and it is good:
    https://www.cbr.com/russos-tease-red-skull-return/
    Last edited by Witchfan; 08-04-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  12. #3417
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    There is a notion that rather large threads may contribute to server load. As such, we are experimenting with closing existing threads to see if it helps matters.
    Feel free to start a new thread on the same topic.
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