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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    These words are so epic they deserve a place in this thread:



    Now I'm convinced that the MCU would not have been possible without Kevin Feige in charge.
    Kevin Feige is The One-Above-All. The laws of the multiverse bends to his will.

  2. #62
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTheCylon View Post
    Continued!

    5 - The Avengers (Assemble). I always struggle with ranking this one. On the one hand, it was the big gamble that paid off, one that carries itself with such innate confidence that it never feels like a gamble, and the high points ("Hulk? Smash.") are the stuff of legend. The kind of thing where you feel like you'll be explaining to your grandkids how it felt to see that the first time, one day. On the other hand, the first 45 minutes are boring as hell, a bunch of by-the-numbers busywork that's necessary to get the right pieces in the right places but really feels like it could've been done better, or at least more economically. Mind you, once the film starts going it never stops, and all your issues with that prolonged opening just sort of melt away...plus it's THE AVENGERS, y'know? Even now, 4 years later, that rotating shot of the whole team standing together sends shivers down the spine. Movie magic.

    4 - Iron Man 3. The Marmite movie. Even among MCU die-hards, this is the love-it-or-hate-it point that will still be argued over for years to come. If you couldn't guess, I am very much of the 'love' persuasion. Yeah, Tony spends a lot of time out of the suit, but honestly? That's a good thing. Iron Man is invincible, but Tony Stark is all too mortal - something all good Iron Man comics understand. Iron Man 3 breaks all his toys - literally stripping him of his plot armour - and forces him to exercise that mighty brain in new and interesting ways, with some genuinely awesome results. It also successfully torpedoes that smugness I mentioned was bothering me in Iron Man 2, by giving Tony some Chitauri PTSD that Downey Jr. absolutely nails. And the Mandarin...he might be the best MCU villain to date. Really, he's kinda perfect. When they chose to have Tony be captured in Afghanistan back in the first film, they drew a clear parallel between Iron Man and modern terrorism, so of course Iron Man's greatest foe is the apotheosis of the modern terrorist...which is basically a gaudy smokescreen. That's what terrorists tend to be, a mixture of unusual iconography and provocative wordplay, punctuated by chaotic violence. The world was afraid of Bin Laden for years despite him being a barely-mobile old guy plugged into a dialysis machine who was eventually shot dead unceremoniously in someone else's house. Iron Man 3 redrafts that, reinforcing with a welcome shot of comedy (via Ben Kingsley's hilarious Trevor Slattery) and a dark, nasty satire of the military industrial complex. Add to that some expanded and far more interesting roles for Pepper and Rhodey (this is where Cheadle absolutely puts his stamp on the role), the terrific plane rescue and a brilliant last battle and I don't know what else I could ask for. Maybe a groovy '70s-sounding end credits theme? Oh wait, it's got that too.

    3 - Avengers: Age of Ultron. I get why people think Age of Ultron was a disappointing follow-up to the first Avengers. There's nothing in this film to match "I'm always angry" and the like. It never reaches those kind of high notes. What it does do is hit a more respectable average level of, let's just say 'awesomeness' to be childish about it, across the course of the whole film. There's no near-hour-long benchwarming period before the fireworks start - we pretty much get thrown right into the fray as soon as the studio logo disappears, and there's a more generous smattering of action throughout. Plus, when things cool down the resulting chatter is more rewarding, as Whedon (aided by having a good few more other movies to check for notes) has a superior grip on everyone's issues and personas, and cuts to their core more sharply. Even the oft-maligned subplot where Thor buggers off to have a magic bath fits in logically with his confidence-shaking hallucination and his sudden, urgent need to prove he can be just as good at building and protecting as he is at breaking stuff. And of course there's Ultron himself, not a very convincing villain (lack of physical power aside, when it becomes apparent that this sentient alien AI born from an infinity stone is somehow being outsmarted by Tony Stark's equivalent of the MS Office paperclip all hope of accepting him as an 'Avengers-worthy' bad guy dries up) but an endlessly fascinating character - a human-hating machine who can't leave humanity behind, whose odd fully-animated face with artificial lips and eyelids, none of which he needs, are a constant reminder that he is every bit as fickle and flawed as the fleshy ones he looks down upon. Overall, Age of Ultron is bloated, and uneven, but it's far more thoughtful than it looks, and it seems to be the one I'm always rewatching so it's clearly doing something right.

    2 - Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Not even sure what's left to say about this one. It's openly the most thematically deep of all the MCU films, a great contextualization of the latter-day war on terror and the politics behind it that pulls no punches about how crappy said things are. It's also another big, important step on the personal, ongoing journey of Cap in the modern day, and fully-realized Black Widow after Avengers nearly-but-not-quite got there, and made everybody fall in love with the Falcon, and had some of the best hand-to-hand combat scenes in any recent film that isn't The Raid, AND had Samuel L. Jackson's best turn as Nick Fury to date, AND finally gave us robot brain Arnim Zola who talks with his face broadcast onto an old CRT monitor, and...look, it's just really good. You know this. Its only noteworthy issues are the very unremarkable, sometimes iffy score, and a very underused Sharon Carter, and neither of those are gamebreakers.

    But even so...

    1 - Guardians of the Galaxy. It's the best. It just is. And a lot of that is personal bias - I was a Star Wars kid long before I was a Marvel fan, I love a good space opera, especially one not too uptight about itself - but honestly? I cannot imagine how Guardians of the Galaxy could be better than it is. There's no single scene I'd cut, no character I'd evict, no setpiece I'd demand be taken back to storyboard. It hits all the right notes, makes you laugh, makes you cheer, makes you cry, it's legitimately gorgeous to behold, opens up the MCU in a thousand interesting ways, makes the best possible use of every part of its incredible eclectic cast...it's the best. Were it legal to marry a movie, I would marry this movie.


    Not really sure where Civil War would fit even after seeing it twice. Could knock Winter Soldier off the #2 spot, honestly. It's very very good.
    Someone else likes IM3? *High five*

  3. #63
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I like Iron Man 3, but there are some issues (some of which are shallow, I admit) that prevented me from loving it.

    I wasn't crazy about the Iron Legion getting torn apart so easily by Killian's Extremis thugs, especially when it was the first time we got to see a lot of classic Iron Man Armors adapted into live-action, and I was a little disappointed with the final fight between Iron Man and Killian.

    And if they were going to make Killian into the real Mandarin, then at least give him 10 different abilities that are channeled through the rings on his fingers instead of generic firepowers. I probably would've been happier with the Mandarin twist if they'd done that. To this day, I still think Iron Man: Armored Adventures Mandarin is the best and by far the coolest Mandarin.

  4. #64
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    The third act is the only part of Iron Man 3 that really bothers me. The rest is perfectly fine.

  5. #65
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    One thing I really, really love about the MCU is how defined the powers are.

    Civil War handled it perfect. No peak human character struggled with a "normal" person at all. They got laid out no matter how skilled they were. Spidey was on a higher strength level than the peak humans.

    And, with Iron Man vs Cap... spoilers:
    they purposefully nerfed Iron Man by having him lose 2 repulsors and he was still "won" the fight until he let up at the end
    end of spoilers

    They stay extremely consistent across the board which is great. Its been that way since Avengers 1.
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  6. #66
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Ok, gonna run down the heroes real quick after Civil War with some thoughts...

    Wanda...

    spoilers:
    She got a mini character arc and confirming she is so young is cool. Wanting ot keep her caged like a walking WMD is interesting, i wonder how much powerful she is going to get.
    end of spoilers

    Vision, don't really need spoiler tags for. He was easily the least interesting hero in the movie IMO. Actually, the only interesting thing with him all movie was...

    spoilers:
    his calculation on how the bigger avengers get, the more catastrophies. Something Thor actually hinted at in Avengers 1.

    And the fact he got distracted and no one knew that is possible. Hes becoming more human.
    end of spoilers

    Black Panther..... boss. Had a full character arc. Perfection.

    Spidey... was 100%, completely thrown in just because. Russos saying he was always in the script is laugable. You could have replaced him with any other hero and it would have made sense still (or more sense actually). Hell, you could have written that whole section out and it would have been fine. BUT... he was enjoyable and easily the best spidey yet on screen. His jokes landed, power levels were accurate, and I liked he was inexperienced.

    Scott Lang...

    spoilers:
    I have no idea how thye do his solo now with him being a fugitive. He is probably the one that is most effected by the ending because he has a solo before Infinity War. But holy moly, he was funny as hell and GIANT MAN HOLY **** THAT WAS COOL
    end of spoilers

    War Machine...

    spoilers:
    Didn't get chumped for once and his speech at the end about the Accords hit home.
    end of spoilers

    Cap, IM, Bucky... damn... that was brutal to watch. **** turned dark quick.
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  7. #67
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImprobableQuestion View Post
    Darn it Craig, you're making me rethink Iron Man 3.
    I adore Iron Man 3, I get very confused by other people's perceptions of it. It is that move that convinces me the Iron Man trilogy is actually better than the Cap trilogy but that is a minority view right now.

  8. #68
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I adore Iron Man 3, I get very confused by other people's perceptions of it. It is that move that convinces me the Iron Man trilogy is actually better than the Cap trilogy but that is a minority view right now.
    My biggest issue about the movie is that he was outside the armor so much. Plus, it kind convoluted things in the MCU because you can ask yourself, "why aren't the Iron Legion always around and why does Tony bother getting in the suit"

    Most people seem bothered by the "twist" though... didn't bother me at all in a sense that it wasn't the "real" Mandarin. It only bothered me because that Mandarin was being built up to be incredibly intimidating.

    My favorite thing about IM3 is the "give people a target and they will ignore everything else" thing. Fits very well with real world...

    But... it gets unnecessary hate online by fanboys.

    So, you prefer IM trilogy even though IM2 exists?
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  9. #69
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    My biggest issue about the movie is that he was outside the armor so much. Plus, it kind convoluted things in the MCU because you can ask yourself, "why aren't the Iron Legion always around and why does Tony bother getting in the suit"

    Most people seem bothered by the "twist" though... didn't bother me at all in a sense that it wasn't the "real" Mandarin. It only bothered me because that Mandarin was being built up to be incredibly intimidating.

    But... it gets unnecessary hate online by fanboys.

    So, you prefer IM trilogy even though IM2 exists?
    I can accept IM2. I dont place it that far down my list. It still has RDJ playing the role he was born to.

    The Manderin is cool the way it was played, I was already a massive fan of Ben Kingsley and I lived in Croydon at the time so I appreciated the shoutout.

    I liked the panic attack element, which was very real and well observed, I like the ending which seems to confuse everyone because people seem to think he gives up being Iron Man when he plainly doesn't. The whole subplot of AoU carries the ideas forward so they are not forgotten. And Gwyneth Paltrow mangaged to convince me she can act which is a feat in itself. And she actually carries a good portion of the movie which was pretty neat.

    P.S. Not being in the suit was a thematic element of the movie, it was partly an existential crisis which blurred the boudaries of where he ended and the suit began. This is why the final words "I am Iron Man" are both reflective of the final words in the first move and a conclusion to the trilogy.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 05-07-2016 at 08:30 AM.

  10. #70
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I can accept IM2. I dont place it that far down my list. It still has RDJ playing the role he was born to.

    The Manderin is cool the way it was played, I was already a massive fan of Ben Kingsley and I lived in Croydon at the time so I appreciated the shoutout.

    I liked the panic attack element, which was very real and well observed, I like the ending which seems to confuse everyone because people seem to think he gives up being Iron Man when he plainly doesn't. The whole subplot of AoU carries the ideas forward so they are not forgotten. And Gwyneth Paltrow mangaged to convince me she can act which is a feat in itself. And she actually carries a good portion of the movie which was pretty neat.

    P.S. Not being in the suit was a thematic element of the movie, it was partly an existential crisis which blurred the boudaries of where he ended and the suit began. This is why the final words "I am Iron Man" are both reflective of the final words in the first move and a conclusion to the trilogy.
    I understand the thematic element, I just didn't enjoy it really lol.

    The Slattery Madarin just seemed so... ruthless. I thought we were getting a Joker level villain honestly. The bait and switch only bothered me because THAT mandarin seemed so freaking awesome. And its only bothered... i accepted and moved on and realized the genius of Aldrich plan.

    And honestly... F pepper in that movie. She was the worse. She sees Tony is breaking. She sees he is having nightmares in his sleep... but bales on him bc that armor acted weird. I HATE that scene... she came off as a out of touch, selfish ass bitch honestly.

    In fact, Tony's mental issues being ignored by everyone is kind irksome. But then again, his only true friend is probably Rhodey and he tries to mask his deteriating mental state throughout each film with a wall of quips.

    and I always find it hilarious that people think Tony quit when his last line in the movie is "I am Iron Man". People don't pay attention
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  11. #71
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I understand the thematic element, I just didn't enjoy it really lol.

    The Slattery Madarin just seemed so... ruthless. I thought we were getting a Joker level villain honestly. The bait and switch only bothered me because THAT mandarin seemed so freaking awesome. And its only bothered... i accepted and moved on and realized the genius of Aldrich plan.

    And honestly... F pepper in that movie. She was the worse. She sees Tony is breaking. She sees he is having nightmares in his sleep... but bales on him bc that armor acted weird. I HATE that scene... she came off as a out of touch, selfish ass bitch honestly.

    In fact, Tony's mental issues being ignored by everyone is kind irksome. But then again, his only true friend is probably Rhodey and he tries to mask his deteriating mental state throughout each film with a wall of quips.

    and I always find it hilarious that people think Tony quit when his last line in the movie is "I am Iron Man". People don't pay attention
    Obviously we all respond differently to these things, I felt she was at the end of her tether and unable to cope anymore, and that felt true and emotionally honest. If you watch it again follow her arc, she is a kind of mirror foil to Tony and she goes on a pretty interesting journey IMO.

  12. #72
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Obviously we all respond differently to these things, I felt she was at the end of her tether and unable to cope anymore, and that felt true and emotionally honest. If you watch it again follow her arc, she is a kind of mirror foil to Tony and she goes on a pretty interesting journey IMO.
    Maybe it was the way the scenes were edited. But for me, Tony finally broke down and told her what was going on. He was finally open and honest. The very next scene, we see him having a nightmare, Pepper sees him having a nightmare, armor shows up, and she bails instantly. He was finally open, and she was ok with it for all of 3 minutes of screen time and gave up and dipped.
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  13. #73
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    As to the Bin Laden image of The Manderin I was initially wondering how this movie could support such a huge villain, it felt unbalanced and I was immediately suspicious. Then when they twisted it I was delighted and amused. They went to some interesting places exploring the ideas of manufacturing terror considering it was a blockbuster movie.

  14. #74
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Maybe it was the way the scenes were edited. But for me, Tony finally broke down and told her what was going on. He was finally open and honest. The very next scene, we see him having a nightmare, Pepper sees him having a nightmare, armor shows up, and she bails instantly. He was finally open, and she was ok with it for all of 3 minutes of screen time and gave up and dipped.
    I saw a woman desperately trying to understand and do the right thing suddenly confronted with the actual reality of being with this potential monster. It was a bit like the monsters from the id in The Forbidden Planet. It is all very well being sympathetic, but to the point of death by nightmare, maybe not.

  15. #75
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    As to the Bin Laden image of The Manderin I was initially wondering how this movie could support such a huge villain, it felt unbalanced and I was immediately suspicious. Then when they twisted it I was delighted and amused. They went to some interesting places exploring the ideas of manufacturing terror considering it was a blockbuster movie.
    Very much so. For all the "kiddy ****" criticism, Marvel has gone DEEP a couple of times, much more real and deep than filters and doom and gloom
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