Gerry Conway

[AlexanderLuthor]

Gerry Conway doesn't own these characters. I loved BvS and thought it was the most sophisticated superhero movie that's been made, yet. BvS was DC's second film and outperformed everything Marvel put out until its 6th movie (Avengers). For supposedly always hitting a homerun, exactly 3 Marvel movies have outpaced BvS...Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3. Why don't we see how JL does (which is more comparable to Avengers) before we say everything is wrong.

First 5 Marvel movies:

Iron Man - $585 million
The Incredible Hulk - $263 million
Iron Man 2 - $624 million
Thor - $449 million
Captain America - $371 million

First 5 DC movies:
Man of Steel - $668 million
BvS - $864 million
Suicide Squad- ?
Wonder Woman - ?
Justice League - ?

So it is very likely that all 5 of DC's first 5 will outgross Marvel's first 5. Everyone can stop with the DCEU funeral

[Tuck]

Challenge you to think about how characters and situations like these would be in a pseudo-realistic world.

That's only interesting as deconstuction, not as a foundation for an ongoing series of stories.

[Desh]

Gerry Conway doesn't own these characters. I loved BvS and thought it was the most sophisticated superhero movie that's been made, yet. BvS was DC's second film and outperformed everything Marvel put out until its 6th movie (Avengers). For supposedly always hitting a homerun, exactly 3 Marvel movies have outpaced BvS...Avengers, A: Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3. Why don't we see how JL does (which is more comparable to Avengers) before we say everything is wrong.

First 5 Marvel movies:

Iron Man - $585 million
The Incredible Hulk - $263 million
Iron Man 2 - $624 million
Thor - $449 million
Captain America - $371 million

First 5 DC movies:
Man of Steel - $668 million
BvS - $864 million
Suicide Squad- ?
Wonder Woman - ?
Justice League - ?

So it is very likely that all 5 of DC's first 5 will outgross Marvel's first 5. Everyone can stop with the DCEU funeral

That's a flawed comparison. You are are comparing movies from eight years ago to a movie just recently released and a movie released a few years ago, and without even factoring in budgets. Besides, we live in a post Avengers world now, so the landscape is very different. More was expected from Batman v Superman.

[Maxpower00044]

Z. Snyder doesn't even know the material he is sourcing for the movie he is making. Which is why when he read DKR (which he had to say he read in 1986 so he sounds informed), he thinks that Batman actually killed ppl in the story which we know is NOT true.

These are not the characterizations that I (and many, many fans) feel should be representing the mainstream DCU. These types of things are good for elseworlds/other universe stories.

I honestly don't get how anyone who can claim to be a batman or superman fan and know what they're about can even like this movie, let alone defend it.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Z. Snyder doesn't even know the material he is sourcing for the movie he is making. Which is why when he read DKR (which he had to say he read in 1986 so he sounds informed), he thinks that Batman actually killed ppl in the story which we know is NOT true.

These are not the characterizations that I (and many, many fans) feel should be representing the mainstream DCU. These types of things are good for elseworlds/other universe stories.

I honestly don't get how anyone who can claim to be a batman or superman fan and know what they're about can even like this movie, let alone defend it.

So you don't think when the tank rolled into the Mutants camp in TDKR anyone would have died? And he just took down the whole gang with rubber bullets? Ok. That's the kind of stuff you can only get away with in comic books

[AlexanderLuthor]

That's a flawed comparison. You are are comparing movies from eight years ago to a movie just recently released and a movie released a few years ago, and without even factoring in budgets. Besides, we live in a post Avengers world now, so the landscape is very different. More was expected from Batman v Superman.

As I said, the real comparison will be JL with Avengers. Here you were trying to reboot one character and introduce another. Let the solo WW build some momentum and let's see how JL does

[Maxpower00044]

Gerry Conway doesn't own these characters. I loved BvS and thought it was the most sophisticated superhero movie that's been made, yet. BvS was DC's second film and outperformed everything Marvel put out until its 6th movie (Avengers). For supposedly always hitting a homerun, exactly 3 Marvel movies have outpaced BvS...Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3. Why don't we see how JL does (which is more comparable to Avengers) before we say everything is wrong.

First 5 Marvel movies:

Iron Man - $585 million
The Incredible Hulk - $263 million
Iron Man 2 - $624 million
Thor - $449 million
Captain America - $371 million

First 5 DC movies:
Man of Steel - $668 million
BvS - $864 million
Suicide Squad- ?
Wonder Woman - ?
Justice League - ?

So it is very likely that all 5 of DC's first 5 will outgross Marvel's first 5. Everyone can stop with the DCEU funeral

You also have to take into consideration that this movie wouldn't be making this type of money if superhero movies didn't get so popular (thanks marvel and Chris Nolan). Also, price tickets have gone up in the decade.

[Desh]

I contest that everyone already knows who Batman and Superman are. They already have HUGE name recognition and both heroes had multiple movies within relatively recent history. Batman v Superman needed to perform NOW, and should have, and would have if it was actually a good movie. You can't keep pushing off the 'real' battle to Justice League. It's already going on and DC is getting seriously worked, and the reason for that is because the quality of their features is woefully lacking.

[Maxpower00044]

So you don't think when the tank rolled into the Mutants camp in TDKR anyone would have died? And he just took down the whole gang with rubber bullets? Ok. That's the kind of stuff you can only get away with in comic books

Yes, I do. I also believe:

He shot the thug in the arm who was holding the baby in the "I believe you" scene which many years later was confirmed in the animated movie.

He snapped joker's neck to the point where he just paralyzed him.

To think otherwise is a gross misunderstanding of Batman as a character. Batman doesn't kill (in the good/correct characterizations of him) and if I'm left with something that's open ended (even though I don't feel these are), I'm going to side with the "he didn't kill" crowd before I side with the opposite side.

Snyder took this to the 100th degree and turned his Batman into a blood thirsty murder with a mommy complex. Zack Snyder screwed up the franchise before it even has a chance to really takeoff. It's really a shame.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

It's funny Nolan had butchered the Batman mythos more then ZS yet ZS is the one who gets crucified more.

[AlexanderLuthor]

I contest that everyone already knows who Batman and Superman are. They already have HUGE name recognition and both heroes had multiple movies within relatively recent history. Batman v Superman needed to perform NOW, and should have, and would have if it was actually a good movie. You can't keep pushing off the 'real' battle to Justice League. It's already going on and DC is getting seriously worked, and the reason for that is because the quality of their features is woefully lacking.

Even adjusting for inflation and IMAX BvS outperformed all 5 of Marvel's first 5 attempts, two of which starred arguably the biggest box office draw in Hollywood (Downey Jr.). The reason BvS "underperformed" is that the audience skewed highly male and white. If the WW movie performs (and I think it will) that will alleviate one of the audience mix problems and hopefully they will give Vic some real screen time to help with the other. Avengers had time to already establish female and minority characters in the MCU. Let's not forget that BvS also outsold everyone's darling Winter Soldier, which had a very similar budget

[AlexanderLuthor]

Yes, I do. I also believe:

He shot the thug in the arm who was holding the baby in the "I believe you" scene which many years later was confirmed in the animated movie.

He snapped joker's neck to the point where he just paralyzed him.

To think otherwise is a gross misunderstanding of Batman as a character. Batman doesn't kill (in the good/correct characterizations of him) and if I'm left with something that's open ended (even though I don't feel these are), I'm going to side with the "he didn't kill" crowd before I side with the opposite side.

Snyder took this to the 100th degree and turned his Batman into a blood thirsty murder with a mommy complex. Zack Snyder screwed up the franchise before it even has a chance to really takeoff. It's really a shame.

Batman has killed many times, as originally depicted by Finger and Kane. With Harry Potter I consider JK Rowling the definitive source of who the character is...with Batman I trust Finger and Kane since they created him. Batman stopped killing because of the Comics Code, no other reason

[Atlanta96]

I agree with Conway, although the f-bomb was a little unnecessary. A guy who considers shooting a beloved character in the head "fun", uses the most obvious comic storylines (Death of Superman, TDKR) as the basis for his film, and makes comments about Batman being raped in prison should be nowhere near any comic book films! I don't think I'll be watching any Snyder directed DC films anytime soon, which is disappointing. I used to like Snyder and I'll always love DC.

[Atlanta96]

Even adjusting for inflation and IMAX BvS outperformed all 5 of Marvel's first 5 attempts, two of which starred arguably the biggest box office draw in Hollywood (Downey Jr.). The reason BvS "underperformed" is that the audience skewed highly male and white. If the WW movie performs (and I think it will) that will alleviate one of the audience mix problems and hopefully they will give Vic some real screen time to help with the other. Avengers had time to already establish female and minority characters in the MCU. Let's not forget that BvS also outsold everyone's darling Winter Soldier, which had a very similar budget

Was RDJ a box office draw before Iron Man? Wasn't he in The Shaggy Dog a few years earlier?

[Buried Alien]

I grew up with and loved (and still do) Conway's approach to the DCU. His Justice League was the Justice League of my childhood. That said, I'm learning to enjoy Snyder's approach too, and really am astonished that fans don't think these characters aren't malleable enough to work under both approaches.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)