Captain America: Civil War *SPOILERS*

[Rogue Star]

Thor didn't know there was an Infinity Stone in that scepter until he had the vision. Thanos is the one who (foolishly) gave it to Loki. Thor had no right to claim it any more than SHIELD did but an argument could be made that he should have taken it anyway.

[dmhaight]

While the movie was definitely good, I don't agree with all the hype that this is "the greatest thing ever" and "so much better than BvS". They were different movies to be sure in spite of certain casual similarities (two main heroes fight against each other), each of them with their own strengths and weaknesses, but I ended up giving both of them a "B" grade overall. For this movie, I'd include among the positives:
* the acting of most of the major characters, especially the two principles (Evans and Downey Jr.)
* the cinematography and effects were good, basically what we've come to expect from the Marvel Studios films at this point

As for the negatives, I'd include the following:
* Zemo - that character didn't even need to be called "Helmut Zemo" as there was no attachment to the actual character by that name. I kept waiting for some connection to be hinted at towards the actual Baron Zemo character, even if only a minor comment in the dialogue, but there was nothing.
* Winter Soldier's killing of Stark's parents...while I understand how this helps serve the movie plot and advance the overall development of the Cinematic Universe, I can't help but wonder now how long it will take for the comic books to take this backstory as an official retcon, highlighting yet again how comics these days seem to give deference to the film or TV versions of these characters, which is one of several reasons I can hardly stand reading modern comics from either of the big two.
* The gratuitous shot towards the end of the fight of Iron Man and Cap facing off that was a direct lift from the comic book Civil War adds. I know they did direct lifts of Dark Knight Returns in the BvS movie too, and frankly I didn't like those either. This is another of those points that illustrates to me though that this movie wasn't "so much better than BvS", which is what all the critics seem to be saying.
* In the slideshow Ross showed to the Avengers as reasoning behind the drafting of the accords he included a scene from Cap-WS where Washington DC was under threat from the SHIELD Hellicarriers taken over by HYDRA. How is that the result of the Avengers, or any other superheroes? That was a rogue government agency. When I saw this in the movie trailer, i was hoping i saw it out of context, but no...that seemed really bizarre that he should include that incident as an example of the need to reign in superheroes.
* In fact, I think this whole idea of an accord against super powered people seems really unearned at this point in Marvel's cinematic universe. I did note a scene where the characters made a point to spell out that Iron Man had been active for 8 years, which means the Cinematic Universe is basically being played as if it's running in real time, which, while interesting, makes me wonder about the longer term plans for these films -- in 7 years from now are we going to have a Marvel Cinematic Universe with an Iron Man who's been around for 15 years?

[Cyke]

* Zemo - that character didn't even need to be called "Helmut Zemo" as there was no attachment to the actual character by that name. I kept waiting for some connection to be hinted at towards the actual Baron Zemo character, even if only a minor comment in the dialogue, but there was nothing.

Though I largely agree with you for the most part, the most Zemo thing he did was to use enough prep time and strategy to destroy the Avengers (something Loki couldn't do, which was his outright stated goal in the first movie). Whether or not it was plausible is a separate thing, but at the end of the day, he succeeded.

So I kind of take it the way the X-movies treat several of their characters, where the names and abilities match, but not much else from the comics (like the Juggernaut).

[HaveAtThee]

Just saw it, and yea it was a fun, solid movie with some good action but nothing spectacular. I really liked Black Panther and Boseman's acting was great. I liked his character's story in the film and I can't wait to see his live-action solo. Two things I didn't like at all were Vision basically being a chump and Spider-Man's inclusion in the film, which I felt as unnecessary and distracting. And damn Cap must be the most powerful Avenger.

[AndrewHuerta]

Really tho?

- Thor stupidly left Loki's scepter on Earth after Avengers

- Wanda, who manipulated Banner, and Stark, is now an Avenger

- Stark created Ultron

- The events of AoU are entirely the fault of people who were/are Avengers

- Steve has kept the location of Bucky secret from his teammates, and leaves him to his own devices...where a Hydra agent could find him. He also deliberately withheld information.

The safest hands are not theirs. There needs to be cooperation from both angles. No one side is right.

And yet, you've been constantly saying that Cap is wrong and Tony is right.

[Rogue Star]

Just saw it, and yea it was a fun, solid movie with some good action but nothing spectacular. I really liked Black Panther and Boseman's acting was great. I liked his character's story in the film and I can't wait to see his live-action solo. Two things I didn't like at all were Vision basically being a chump and Spider-Man's inclusion in the film, which I felt as unnecessary and distracting. And damn Cap must be the most powerful Avenger.

Iron Man would have beat Cap without that last bit of interference from Bucky.

[AndrewHuerta]

I've been saying the same thing about BvS. To be honest, I enjoyed BvS more than Civil War after one viewing (mainly because of Batman) but it definitely had editing issues and too many set-ups/easter eggs for future movies. My main technical complaints about Civil War involve the overuse of that godforsaken shaky cam, distractingly obvious CGI and the constant location hopping in the beginning. My other issue with Civil War is that the movie just failed to pull me in. I felt like I was just watching stuff happen. But maybe that has more to do with my expectations for the Russos after what they did with CA: The Winter Soldier. I'm still unable to come up with a score for the movie. Unlike with past films, I have a feeling this one might take multiple viewings and a good long while for me to come to a decision.

The difference is people have to nitpick in order to dislike CW. While BvS had numerous flaws in plain sight which has caused a massive uproar over the movie.

And if you like a movie because of only one character, Batman, that doesn't make it a good movie.

[Rogue Star]

The difference is people have to nitpick in order to dislike CW. While BvS had numerous flaws in plain sight which has caused a massive uproar over the movie.

And if you like a movie because of only one character, Batman, that doesn't make it a good movie.

It does if the good outweighs the bad. I found it entertaining, very flawed but entertaining at the end of the day. For some Batman wasn't enough. He was for me. It wasn't great, just good. That's all there is to it.

[Lax]

Really tho?

Yup.

- Thor stupidly left Loki's scepter on Earth after Avengers

The only reason Thor was in Avengers was because he wanted to stop Loki's takeover of humanity. He didn't try to ask for humanity's permission beforehand, he saved a species that he wasn't even a part of because he thought it was the right course of action. He saved the entire universe in Thor 2: Dark World and almost nobody on earth has a clue.

Everyone lives in the universe, should he have consulted Humans, Asgardians, Frost Giants, etc before saving them? Nope. Governments do not decide right and wrong, logic does.

- Wanda, who manipulated Banner, and Stark, is now an Avenger

Considering what Hydra did to a guy as upstanding as Bucky... I don't blame Wanda for being evil at the start of the movie. Wanda is an Avenger now because the individual members of the Avengers saw her change and were convinced the change was genuine, time has proven them right and she's been a wonderful person ever sense. She choose the "follow your conscience" idea of Cap's argument over the "follow orders" idea of the Ross argument. They made the right call.

- Stark created Ultron

He already created an AI called Jarvus who was just fine, it was the exposure of the cosmic item in Loki scepter that made the new AI crazy. Once Stark realized aliens could invade the earth he wanted to be proactive instead of reactive.

You are correct in pointing out that Iron Man's decision backfired, but the problem was a combination of Stark not understanding Loki's tech, it not being his property to begin with, and he was trying to stop a threat that did not at present and may not ever exist.(A hypothetical future alien invasion)

The fault was in the logical flaws of his decision making process, not that he made a decision without the approval of others.

- The events of AoU are entirely the fault of people who were/are Avengers

The events of Captain America: Winter Soldier were entirely the fault of Hydra and Shield(government) but who was stuck cleaning up the mess? It wasn't Hydra or Shield, it was Captain America, Black Widow, Falcon and those who were willing to side with them after Cap's individualistic speech. Cap would've fought both Hydra and Shield at the same time if necessary, even if he had to do it by himself.


Hydra and Loki's tech had a lot to do with AoU and it still doesn't change the fact that the Avenger's judgement as individuals within the first movie is the only reason humanity was even alive to be in danger during AoU. You're right, Stark's decision to combine Loki's tech with his own was a mistake and he is 100% responsible for his role in creating Ultron. However, he also decided to be involved in the effort to save humanity from his own mistake and he is also 100% responsible for that decision as well. In other words, the Avengers have shown the ability to correct their own mistakes while the government needs the Avengers to do it for them.

This isn't even counting the numerous heroic decisions of Stark in Iron Man 1, 2, and 3. No government has ever saved humanity from extinction, the various members of the Avengers have multiple times.

- Steve has kept the location of Bucky secret from his teammates, and leaves him to his own devices...where a Hydra agent could find him. He also deliberately withheld information.

He was wrong to lie and admitted as much to Tony.

However, the reason Bucky was in danger was because Zemo tricked the government into believing he killed the King, then, while in government custody, Bucky was activated by Zemo.

The safest hands are not theirs. There needs to be cooperation from both angles. No one side is right.

Logic itself is what determines what is right and what is wrong.

The amount of people who agree on a topic is completely irrelevant to whether or not the conclusion they've made is correct. Captain America understands this best of all, that knowledge doesn't make him perfect, but if one doesn't use that concept as the starting point then fundamentally nothing else matters in terms of morality.

The moral compass has already given way to mob rule.

[Raphael Edwards]

Saw the movie twice so far and without a shadow of a doubt, this is the best superhero film I've ever seen.

Everything about it was done so damn right.

The only gripes people could toss at it are nitpicks at best and I've seen the trolls in the first few pages trying their best to claim the movie was a mess and terrible. I really hope no one with a working brain took their words to heart or gave them any creedance.

CA:CW>>>>>>>Garbage>>>>>>>Martha!>>>>BvS

[Fury, Nicholas J.,]

Saw the movie twice so far and without a shadow of a doubt, this is the best superhero film I've ever seen.

Everything about it was done so damn right.

The only gripes people could toss at it are nitpicks at best and I've seen the trolls in the first few pages trying their best to claim the movie was a mess and terrible. I really hope no one with a working brain took their words to heart or gave them any creedance.

CA:CW>>>>>>>Garbage>>>>>>>Martha!>>>>BvS

QFT.

Cap 3 is lit!

[Darth Phoenix]

I just saw it loved it in general, just dull bad guys.

[Rogue Star]

The thing I appreciated about Zemo was that he was so small in comparison to the heroes he was taking on. He never talked bug about himself either. There was a psychotic obsession and determination in him to hurt the people who ruined his life. There was no maniacal laughter or egotistical grandstanding. Nope, all he wanted revenge, and even he seemed to know that revenge wouldn't bring his family back. I wonder what he's going to do now that he has nothing left to live for and nothing but time on his hands.

[Project Initiative Cascada]

Just saw this film last night and was blown away. This is easily one of the best MCU films to date and a much better Avengers film than AoU, even though it still did a great job focusing on Cap. Despite all the casualties I still was on Cap and Bucky's side, and I think I still hated Stark in this like I did in the CW comic. Some weird pacing and camera shots during the action scenes but I assume that was all art related.

I have to say the funeral scene with Sharon revealing her relation to Peggy got me balling. Not to mention her and Steve finally kissing was very exciting since they are one of my favorite couples in the comics.

Wanda's powers were better regulated in this and so was her personality. I didn't see her as another Jean Grey but the actual mutant witch she was in the comics. Even though I hated it in the comics, I do kind of like the correlations with Dissassembled/Decimation where she is shown as too powerful and unstable and a threat to humanity. Her possible romantic relationship with Vision (Let's make it official in IW!) and her sibling like relationship with Steve was done fantastically too.

T'Challa easily was the scene stealer in this. Boseman really brought out the holy man and badass PB is. All I kept thinking was how much I am stoked to see his solo film in a few years. Spider-Man was done great too, but I feel his costume needs a little more tweaking and design to it. Marisa Tomei (As much as I love the woman) was easily miscast and looks way too young as May. She's not supposed to be some hot cougar but instead be an older spinster white haired fragile woman.

Otherwise just a terrific film all around. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. While I'll wait to see Rogue One and Finding Dory, I'm going to have to say this is the blockbuster to beat this year in terms of quality and possible box office gross.

[Kasper Cole]

Logic itself is what determines what is right and what is wrong.

This is overly simplistic....

The world is FAR more complex than that

If "Logic dictates what's right and what's wrong" doesn't that mean Cap is wrong since Vision (who makes decisions based on logic) was in favor of a degree of oversight?