The Wicked + The divine #19 Spoilers

[JKtheMac]

This issue reads very fast. A lot of fighting, not a great deal of info, possibly some clues in the artwork. Wilson gets to show off a bit more with his colour work with lots of darkness and lighting. McKelvie is back to using lots of panels for action, which I always enjoy.

We at least get to hear what people think and how the lines are being drawn. Ananke is as manipulative as ever, the way she plays Baal still makes me feel he will switch sides. The manipulation is a tension device that just has to pay off at some point. Ananke also tells Wodan that Laura isn't alive, which is still quite cryptic, and given how Persephone seems to correct Dionysus when he calls her Laura could play to the Cora/Persephone loss of innocence idea that I was thinking about last issue.

Quite what brings Dionysus down at his party is unclear. It seems unlikely that he just needs sugar.

Laura may be playing to the name The Destroyer. Ananke was certainly suggesting she has a duel nature when she first named her, spring and autumn maybe? She is talking about miracles, which has a revelatory / initiation ring to it. Maybe it is unsurprising but it is beginning to feel like Persephone is going to be the main protagonist and that she has a few secrets of her own. It isn’t just on the roundup page that she seems to be Ananke’s opposite number. I am starting to wonder if Lucifer was acting in her role as light-bringer / light-fore as the deity that lit the way and introduced Persephone before falling back below the horizon. (I always liked how the planet Venus can also be thought of as Lucifer.) Her whole power set seems focused on those clicks that Lucifer taught her and the potential burning that is hinted at in her billowing smoke of a hairstyle.

Ananke is not going to be happy that they left the “overpriced Hogwarts tat” behind, but the knowledge they glean is two sided. It suggests Minerva will be next to be killed and provides the smoking gun, but her words imply that Ananke is trying to do what she thinks is right.

It is very interesting to see Minerva has become suspicious since doing her research. With the words she chooses she could have been posting here.

While Baal and Sakhmet are fighting Amaterasu proves surprisingly effective. The Morrigan is scary, and probably wouldn’t worry about friendly fire. Baphomet seems to have a full and impressive power set in the underworld.

I find it very hard to believe Gillen didn’t bother to read the text pieces in The Watchmen.

[JKtheMac]

While I am just talking to myself I have to say I am very interested to read in the letters that in previous Recurrences the deities powers have been less public. I wonder if this will play into the story. I still suspect the story is partly about cultural initiation and that the arc will involve a lot more young people becomming deities during the rising action. Maybe the relative publicity of our age is the thing that will tilt the balance.

Talking of tilting the balance, I wonder if this is partly a "Tipping of the table" story. That concept is difficult to put in a short paragraph but the idea is the relationship between the gods and people somehow changed at a point in history. In classical mythology it was at the marriage of Cadmus and Harmony, where the wedding table gets overturned and is represented in the sky as the milky way, and the way it is at an agle to the rotation of the Earth. What I am wondering is which side represents the status quo and which side represents the upsetting of the table at the new era of mankind.

[JediKage]

Really I don't think Baphomet is all that impressive in combat. Morrigan is clearly caring the load for her team.

Baal is acting more normal now.

Still the recording was interesting. But it could be bait for all we know.

Well I have to say Ananke is the Status Quo. She has been active for a long time. Now she could be enforcing false balance but she is still status quo.

[Proto]

This was a great issue but I kinda feel like I'm holding my breath waiting for some of these answers. Ananke's totally laying down some bait with that recording. I kept wondering why she'd bring the Owl along for any other reason.

Also I'm really interested in this Persephone/Laura divide. I'm assuming her song was a hint of that something's amiss with her. (Was that the first time we actually heard words when one of the gods perform??)

[JediKage]

Didn't Cass have lines?

Which reminds me did Baal and Ama always sit next together? Or did they just shift seating. Granted Sky Gods and Sun Gods tend to have lose connections.

[JKtheMac]

Really I don't think Baphomet is all that impressive in combat. Morrigan is clearly caring the load for her team.

Baal is acting more normal now.

Still the recording was interesting. But it could be bait for all we know.

Well I have to say Ananke is the Status Quo. She has been active for a long time. Now she could be enforcing false balance but she is still status quo.

We already knew the recording issue, it was made plain by the thing about video not conveying anything early on in the first few issues. This phenomenon is all about live performances, participants are key presumably, this is partly why I think this is about initiation.

Ananke is the spindle, she is related to records and recordings in my mind, this is why she keeps reminding me of an A&R man. Isn't her plan to capture the essence of the deities into a machine to help the magic last longer?

Baal has been manipulated, he was held back in the last fight until the stakes matched a situation that Ananke could clearly control. He is on a rope, he isn't really acting with his own will.

P.S. I was thinking about recordings and misunderstood your notes on recording, the ideas still stand however.

[JKtheMac]

This was a great issue but I kinda feel like I'm holding my breath waiting for some of these answers. Ananke's totally laying down some bait with that recording. I kept wondering why she'd bring the Owl along for any other reason.

Although structurally the recording is bait, I am not sure it is intentional bait. I don't think she intended the owl to stay in the underworld.

[JKtheMac]

Didn't Cass have lines?

Did she? Not sure what you mean here.

Which reminds me did Baal and Ama always sit next together? Or did they just shift seating. Granted Sky Gods and Sun Gods tend to have lose connections.

Yes they did.

[JKtheMac]

Also I'm really interested in this Persephone/Laura divide. I'm assuming her song was a hint of that something's amiss with her.

In the mythology, she is called Cora or Kore, and she was a virgin. Once she is no longer a virgin she is no longer called that. It is an innocent name. It cannot be returned to.

One of the 'problems' with Persephone mythology is in the meaning. Some cite the duality of Kore and Demeter, how they are a duel goddess, how they have a cyclical association. The abduction of Kore probably had an important meaning other than the cycles of the year and of life and death, but we no longer know what that was. This was a time of religious teaching through initiation not through writing or recorded ideas. Can you see a theme yet? This stuff wasn't written down and this comic has magic that can't be recorded.

Taking things further, Kore is also the pupil of the eye, there is a mysterious analogy in classical religious thought, one of perception of self, in some stories Kore is gazing at a narcissus at the moment that Hades arrives to carry her off, suggesting some kind of interrupted self reflection, or perhaps representing the idea that when Kore and Hades met they somehow complete each other.

Kore is not just some young girl, she is THE young girl. Laura wasn't just a fan girl, she was the prototypical fan-girl. She is the character the fan-girl associates with. Kore is the character the young bride-to-be is guided by or associates with before marriage. Perhaps Laura will become the same for fans seeking the truth behind the mystery.

P.S. Usually Persephone is considered alive in the underworld so Ananke may be trying to assert that she isn't alive as opposed to actually knowing she isn't. There are also all sorts of other connotations for alive people in the underworld related to sex but I will leave you to look them up, that kind of thing is way down the rabbit hole for a discussion forum. Suffice to say it will be interesting to see how Dionysus’s story will play out.

P.P.S. Kore can be considered a virgin as long as you ignore her serpentine coupling with Zeus as a new-born, which is possibly more meta-mythological (yep myths may have meta text too).

(Was that the first time we actually heard words when one of the gods perform??)

That's a good catch, maybe she can be recorded too.

[JediKage]

Did she? Not sure what you mean here.



Yes they did.

Baphomet only has himself to blame. I mean he did try to kill Cass in front of Baal. So you can say Ananke is playing them which she is to an extent. But if you had the info Baal had who would u believe?

We are talking about words when the gods perform.

Well we don't know much about the God/Human Dynamic. Are they the God or the Human? I think its probably affected by the personality of the God in question and how that personality relates to the human.

[JKtheMac]

Baphomet only has himself to blame. I mean he did try to kill Cass in front of Baal. So you can say Ananke is playing them which she is to an extent. But if you had the info Baal had who would u believe?

Sure, but Ananke is playing him all the same.

We are talking about words when the gods perform.

I am pretty sure we are talking about Polyhymnia - lyric song. It has more underworld connotations than poetry or prose. Plato's fearful Muse. But yep I think these are the first words.

Well we don't know much about the God/Human Dynamic. Are they the God or the Human? I think its probably affected by the personality of the God in question and how that personality relates to the human.

What we can presume is that the idea of deity has come from these guys in the first place. As such they are a solid analogy to gods. The choice of Ananke as a character also backs that up. A previous recurrence could have sat on top of Olympus for all we know.

[JKtheMac]

I was looking at the character design for Ananke, partly because she is depicted really well in this issue, and I only now realised her veil is a nod to her mythological net. That got me wondering, what is that mask that she wears. It looks leaf like but it would be an odd leaf that divided into six. Any other ideas?

[JediKage]

Ananke is playing everyone. And she should honestly she has like what centuries of practice. The question is whether Peresphone is playing her team.

[JKtheMac]

Ananke is playing everyone. And she should honestly she has like what centuries of practice. The question is whether Peresphone is playing her team.

With her expression she seems to be taking the destroyer mantle but I suspect she is thinking of Ananke when she says "she is right". Even in her Autumnal guise Demeter is not seen as destructive, and I can't think of another dual nature that makes any sense. Which makes me wonder if her ominous pose suggesting fire and smoke is just a visual trick meant to keep us guessing or maybe meant to suggest she is acting tough as a rallying call.

I can't imagine the remainder of this story or even this trade is going to focus on this fight so I am sure we will get a twist or turn soon. But I don't expect them to throw away all of the identification and good will that has been built up and now rewarded and make Persephone anything other than the protagonist.