What if he doesn't come back?

[manofsteel1979]

I dunno man, the shipping wars seem to only be a thing for a couple posters here. They're certainly vocal, but Im pretty sure I could count all of them on my hands.

As for the L&C sales, that is a completely viable thing to take on. It has been outsold by American Alien and, if I recall correctly, Coming of the Supermen. Both are out of continuity mini's doing unusual stuff and AA can barely be called a Superman story at all, and while Adams and Landis certainly pull their share of "curiosity purchases" Jurgens is supposed to have a built in fanbase of his own. The reviews, from what I have seen, are pretty mixed.

Obviously Action is going to pull more numbers than L&C since its the flagship title, but L&C and Superdad have shown nothing to indicate that its going to sell better than what we have right now once the Rebirth hype dies down.

Had L&C sales been better, or had it gotten glowing reviews across the board the way some books like Dial H or Starman did, then I could see an argument for this being good business. But all it looks like is desperation.

I wasn't necessarily reffering to us here. MOST of us here are sane individuals and can separate our personal preferances from objective truths, but elsewhere it feels like a lot of the polarization on Superdad or Nuperman seems rooted in the shipping. I mean there's not THAT much different between the Supermen.

Oh and this is desperation AND laziness. Instead of having to do the hard character work and building with Nuperman, DC is doing the quick and easy thing and swaping out a Superman that Isn't that strongly defined to one that was. It's another band aid on a wound that's festered since 2004 at least.

[DieHard200904]

I'm just bemused and shake my head over all this. I am giving it a shot because I've been reading for 25 year and I've pretty much seen it all. It is still Superman ultimately. I do wish they just did the smart thing and just write Superman Red/ Nuperman like the guy in Superman#51. No stunts. No gimmicks. Just write him like Superman. You want him with Lois and give them a son? There are ways to do that without pissing off a sizable chunk of the fanbase by swaping Supermen like they are interchangeable pieces.

As much as I feared they'd merge them, I am starting to think given what we know now, doing that may not have been such a bad idea.

In fact not only would that be not so offensive, but it would simply be less complicated. They had a perfect window to get him with Lois Lane in the New 52 versions. But for some reason they figured that killing him off and replacing alternate versions is better. Whatever, to me it is unnecessarily complicated when he was broken up from another relationship as it was, and they could simply hang out > date > marry if DC has changed their minds about the no marriage rule. My best guess though is this move if it is a death and Return saga is about the idea that if you sell two Supermen then you sell more Superman.

[adrikito]

in Newsarama there is a small preview of the new Superman of Metropolis Lex Luthor.. The best:

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/...7_03_color.jpg

This man should be the superman of metropolis during rebirth... He would never be a threat to the return of superman .. so maybe again become villain ended his reign as "Lex Superman"

although the small advance of Green Lantern rebirth 1 with Jessica and Simon.. is better, is more entertaining

[manofsteel1979]

in Newsarama there is a small preview of the new Superman of Metropolis Lex Luthor.. The best:

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/...7_03_color.jpg

This man should be the superman of metropolis during rebirth... He would never be a threat to the return of superman .. so maybe again become villain ended his reign as "Lex Superman"

although the small advance of Green Lantern rebirth 1 with Jessica and Simon.. is better, is more entertaining

As an aside. ..isn't that Maggie Sawyer with Jimmy in the preview? Or is it Lana just packing heat?

[adrikito]

As an aside. ..isn't that Maggie Sawyer with Jimmy in the preview? Or is it Lana just packing heat?

you'll have to wait to see this.. Maggie replace Gordon in Superheavy as commissar, no? perhaps after losing this position she moved to metropolis...

[manofsteel1979]

you'll have to wait to see this.. Maggie replace Gordon in Superheavy as commissar, no? perhaps after losing this position she moved to metropolis...

Maggie originated in the Superman books circa 1990s. It would be nice to see her back where she belongs.

[DieHard200904]

Maggie originated in the Superman books circa 1990s. It would be nice to see her back where she belongs.

I would certainly want the entire SCU if DC could just do that.

[adrikito]

Maggie originated in the Superman books circa 1990s. It would be nice to see her back where she belongs.

Then. is possible, and this woman is she.

[manofsteel1979]

I would certainly want the entire SCU if DC could just do that.

Definitely. Bring back Dan Turpin while we're at it!

[misslane]

As for the L&C sales, that is a completely viable thing to take on. It has been outsold by American Alien and, if I recall correctly, Coming of the Supermen. Both are out of continuity mini's doing unusual stuff and AA can barely be called a Superman story at all, and while Adams and Landis certainly pull their share of "curiosity purchases" Jurgens is supposed to have a built in fanbase of his own. The reviews, from what I have seen, are pretty mixed.

I am supportive of Jurgens, but I don't think he has that much "star power." I also think that both American Alien and Coming of the Supermen are still both telling recognizable Superman stories. American Alien is like a Smallville origin story, and origin stories can be far more welcoming to newbies than a story like Lois & Clark that is spun off from not only the Post-Crisis but also Convergence. Meanwhile, Coming of the Supermen tells what is basically a Bronze Age Superman story, so it is accessible with covers and context that has familiar Superman in his suit saving the day. Also, the disparity in sales (a few thousand) is not a major one. I believe Lois & Clark sells better digitally, too.

Had L&C sales been better, or had it gotten glowing reviews across the board the way some books like Dial H or Starman did, then I could see an argument for this being good business. But all it looks like is desperation.

You can get a sense of reviews from a review aggregator site like Comic Book Roundup. According to it, Lois & Clark has an 8.5 review average. Meanwhile, Coming of the Supermen has a 6.9 average, Superman/Wonder Woman has a 6.6, Action Comics has a 7.6, and American Alien has an 8.4. By those numbers alone, I think it is wrong to use critical response to Lois & Clark to disparage it.

[adrikito]

Definitely. Bring back Dan Turpin while we're at it!

the man who kill darkseid.. no? I see this in animated series and I heard about his death(before new52) in the comics..

[Ascended]

I am supportive of Jurgens, but I don't think he has that much "star power." I also think that both American Alien and Coming of the Supermen are still both telling recognizable Superman stories. American Alien is like a Smallville origin story, and origin stories can be far more welcoming to newbies than a story like Lois & Clark that is spun off from not only the Post-Crisis but also Convergence. Meanwhile, Coming of the Supermen tells what is basically a Bronze Age Superman story, so it is accessible with covers and context that has familiar Superman in his suit saving the day. Also, the disparity in sales (a few thousand) is not a major one. I believe Lois & Clark sells better digitally, too.

You can get a sense of reviews from a review aggregator site like Comic Book Roundup. According to it, Lois & Clark has an 8.5 review average. Meanwhile, Coming of the Supermen has a 6.9 average, Superman/Wonder Woman has a 6.6, Action Comics has a 7.6, and American Alien has an 8.4. By those numbers alone, I think it is wrong to use critical response to Lois & Clark to disparage it.

Sorry, all I see are excuses here. It can also be argued that out-of-continuity books sell worse, so AA and CotS are handicapped in ways L&C isn't too. But they still sell better.

Now, if those review collections are accurate then L&C does a bit better than I had thought, but its still not that much beyond the rest of the line, and I would imagine that the lackluster quality of Truth also drove the main titles' down too, so the difference is likely even less than what you shared (just assuming on this one of course).

My point is, the book is not doing so well that moving Superdad into the top position is good business. Can it be argued that it does well enough that keeping him around is a smart choice? I'd certainly think so. But replacing the proper Superman of this continuity? That's overkill and its just not supported by the numbers. Attempts to prove otherwise are just twisting the facts, like an accountant who screws with the variable overhead to make the bottom line look more appealing. The numbers suggest, at the very most, that splitting the main titles between the two might be a good call. At the most, and even then I would be wary of it.

What we have is a middling miniseries about a character who historically hasn't done too well, who currently isnt setting anything on fire, replacing a character who is in basically the same boat but has a more recent track record of success (2011-2014 were strong years). This is a zero-sum game at best.

[DieHard200904]

Definitely. Bring back Dan Turpin while we're at it!

Oh, believe me, I like Dan "The Bulldog" Turpin. It would be interesting how they stick the SCU down, part of the "reign" perhaps. I mean, multiple Super-characters kind of sounds like a reason for police/military to have their own task force for dealing with metahuman or simply powerful criminals right then and there, the big riddle is: Who gives the funding? I suspect Luthor contributes to some of it, but I am not going to jump to any conclusions on that one.

[Tayswift]

I wasn't necessarily reffering to us here. MOST of us here are sane individuals and can separate our personal preferances from objective truths, but elsewhere it feels like a lot of the polarization on Superdad or Nuperman seems rooted in the shipping. I mean there's not THAT much different between the Supermen.

Oh and this is desperation AND laziness. Instead of having to do the hard character work and building with Nuperman, DC is doing the quick and easy thing and swaping out a Superman that Isn't that strongly defined to one that was. It's another band aid on a wound that's festered since 2004 at least.

nuperman is much more brash, agressive and arrogant than pre52superman. For me it is significative difference on personality

[adrikito]

nuperman is much more brash, agressive and arrogant than pre52superman. For me it is significative difference on personality

Is that why .. I like the character.. Superman does not have to be a saint... I do not see the problem in a brash superman..

I think it's silly, he is something different from the previous version and there is a problem... Even he will became in Lois boyfriend the old fans who hate he would continue complaining for this.. Sure..

Lois isn´t the problem.. The problem is what do you want Superman as before..