What if he doesn't come back?

[vasir12]

Well, I said "a bit of." But it seems to me that a 10-year-old, just getting his powers, with no training or experience, who is already being hyped as taking on foes that his father (The Greatest Hero In The World) can't defeat - if I've been reading the Coming Attractions correctly - might overlap somewhat with Gary Stu territory.

Certainly a lot more so than Superman or Batman.

You haven't read the story. I haven't read the story. No one can say anything about Jon in it, but nowhere does it say that Jon beats the villain, especially without problems. They also didn't say the story was about him. It's called SUPERMAN after all. If you don't like the character, just say you don't like the character. No reason to make things up to validate yourself.

[Francisco]

He does have to comeback. Superdad doesn't belong in this new52 reality. Are they going to ignore that fact and just pretend New52 Superman never existed?
He is coming back. They probably will kill Superdad to make way for that Jon character. Then we will have a new Superboy. But I won't be reading until the real Superman from the current continuity is back. Just like when I stopped reading when they made Superman into an electricity being

[adrikito]

He does have to comeback. Superdad doesn't belong in this new52 reality. Are they going to ignore that fact and just pretend New52 Superman never existed?
He is coming back. They probably will kill Superdad to make way for that Jon character. Then we will have a new Superboy. But I won't be reading until the real Superman from the current continuity is back. Just like when I stopped reading when they made Superman into an electricity being

Now that you mention it .. I was afraid because barry allen and hal jordan was replaced(during years), but his replace belonged to the same universe, and they were friends of them.. they replace the old(flash, GL in earth) with they made sense.. As dick grayson replacing Bruce Wayne as Batman.

There will still be lucky and DC not surrender give to superdad everything related to superman for.. there are no complaints...

There is still hope.. .. Maybe in 1 year.. I see his return.. All Rebirth NO.. Please..

[A Guy's Name]

He does have to comeback. Superdad doesn't belong in this new52 reality. Are they going to ignore that fact and just pretend New52 Superman never existed?
He is coming back. They probably will kill Superdad to make way for that Jon character. Then we will have a new Superboy. But I won't be reading until the real Superman from the current continuity is back. Just like when I stopped reading when they made Superman into an electricity being

I prefer not killing SuperDad, as much as I enjoy New-52 SM and his stories and the relationship he has with some of the characters of Prime-Earth.
He could be depowered, retain the White surname, act as a consultant/mentor.
He and his family could be sent to another universe, preferably his own.
Adopting a different codename and costume with the JSA could be interesting.
If he has to die, him and New-Earth Lois must get a proper death, a proper send off. Something better than what he got before 2011.

But yeah, New-52 Superman/Post-FP SM/Superman Red must return.

[Francisco]

I prefer not killing SuperDad, as much as I enjoy New-52 SM and his stories and the relationship he has with some of the characters of Prime-Earth.
He could be depowered, retain the White surname, act as a consultant/mentor.
He and his family could be sent to another universe, preferably his own.
Adopting a different codename and costume with the JSA could be interesting.
If he has to die, him and New-Earth Lois must get a proper death, a proper send off. Something better than what he got before 2011.

But yeah, New-52 Superman/Post-FP SM/Superman Red must return.

I don't wanted them to kill Superdad (because he is Superman) but I think that's what they're going to do (another mistake) If I had my way DC will be just publishing new Superman book set in the post-crisis universe. I'd also like your idea of him taking another code name and joining the Justice Society while staying in the New 52 continuity

[misslane]

He does have to comeback. Superdad doesn't belong in this new52 reality. Are they going to ignore that fact and just pretend New52 Superman never existed?
He is coming back. They probably will kill Superdad to make way for that Jon character. Then we will have a new Superboy. But I won't be reading until the real Superman from the current continuity is back. Just like when I stopped reading when they made Superman into an electricity being

There is no comic book, cosmic, moral, legal, or logical rule that says Superdad doesn't belong and therefore must die. It is not a fact. Neither is it a fact that New 52 Superman is going to be ignored or that he is the only real Superman. Jon is going to be the new Superboy while his father is alive, the way it seems to be presented. Again, no one has to die.

[manduck37]

As long as the story is good, I'll keep reading. I'm not locked into any one version of Superman. I tend to like them all. So if the story holds up, I'll keep reading. That's my bottom line. This is a hobby for me. So I read what I enjoy. If I stop enjoying it, I stop reading it. Plain and simple.

[Ascended]

I know I said I wasn't going to continue this but there were a couple things I did want to address.

And, in my opinion, I L&C has more handicaps.

Its likely a matter of splitting hairs, really. And for whatever shortcomings L&C had, it was also aimed directly at a particular demographic that should have, in theory, jumped on it, offsetting whatever benefits AA and CotS might have over it.

In the end, since we dont know how DC decides and measures these nebulous qualitative factors, either of us could be right, wrong, both, or neither.

I do suspect that they make more revenue per issue off L&C though. Jurgens and Weeks likely have a lower page rate than Landis and his artists (especially Manupaul and Jock). I wonder how the transition to Action will affect that? Jurgens will certainly be paid more per page for Action than L&C.

I don't think you've made your case. All you can say is that it sold poorly. You can't extrapolate from that anything close to a persuasive argument for your disparaging judgments and gloomy prognostications for Rebirth.

Sure I can. Convergence and L&C were both designed to appeal to fans of the old continuity. That was specifically their purpose (other than Convergence covering DC for the move West of course) and their creative teams reflected that. Assuming that there was a big crowd waiting for the old DC to return, those two things should have sold better than they did. Therefore, the people who want the old continuity back either: A) left and are not coming back. B) just dont care anymore. C) made the adjustment to the 52. D) read what they enjoy regardless of continuity and picked up/dropped the books on their own quality and nothing else.

Superdad taking over the line would appeal to the demographic who never showed up for the other nostalgia attempts while driving other readers (like Sacred) away. So right now we have a potential gain in readership that is not supported by previous, similar products, a potential loss of current fans, and the big issue, the one that really matters and is the source of my disappointment; the same editors and talent. That's the key factor. If DC were bringing in Superdad with the likes of John Hickman, Warren Ellis, and Grant Morrison, and Mark Doyle took over the editor's chair, the quality would certainly increase, readership would too, and even I would be forced to roll with it. That's not happening. The same people are in charge. So I expect similar quality. These are some of the same guys who brought down Superdad in the first place, ruined Superman's strong start, and people are expecting a different result now? Thats crazy talk.

What's with the tone and attitude?

This is what I wanted to address. If I came across as having attitude, my apologies. That was not my intent.

New 52 Superman needed a break. His 5 years were filled with stunts that eroded and deconstructed him until there was a lot of painstaking rebuilding that had to be done. He was attached to Wonder Woman whose own treatment by the Finches took its toll. To align with the movies and to lure back better creators like Rucka, the Superman and Wonder Woman relationship had to go. Supergirl was easy enough to rehabilitate with the show as a blueprint, but Superboy has been a problem for awhile. Lois Lane has also caused the Superman offices difficulty, since they seem to maintain the attitude that if Lois isn't Superman's girlfriend, she can't have a good role in his stories. Bringing in the Post-Crisis family fixes a lot of those problems, possibly on a temporary basis, by giving them time to see if this new set up will work and/or figure out where to go next with New 52 Superman whose potential reintroduction may be made easier if the new crew helps to rebuild his world.

Oh, it could potentially work. An older Superman with a family is one thing Ive always wanted to see in continuity. But do you really think the manner they're going about it is going to engender a high degree of consumer confidence and support? Because DC has a serious problem with that and I do not see this move doing anything to help them. And the last 5 years have been full of crossovers and needless shifts and deconstructions....and there's little reason to assume much is going to change.

They are if they aren't comparable. What L&C is isn't what Rebirth is going to be, so the potential in the Rebirth concept cannot be accurately gauged on L&C sales alone.

Im not saying they are. Im saying that the sales do not generate a lot of faith. Obviously the main titles will pull more numbers, but I would feel a lot more confident about DC's decision making skills if they had used American Alien for this. At least that book is both critically acclaimed and high selling.

I'm not saying I'm optimistic or sure that Superdad will usher in sales and buzz that would qualify as equal or superior success to what the New 52 did offer or could have offered. I'm saying I don't know, and I don't think L&C sales data or reviews offer sufficient tea leaves that should add or detract to anyone's outlook.

I agree that L&C only provide a very, very rough blueprint of what we might expect to happen. But combined with DC's track record and the people in charge, I dont see much to get excited about. Im not trying to say that L&C's poor performance is proof that this entire endeavor will fail, Im just pointing out that its not filling me with confidence.

Sure, but Superdad resembles the cinematic universe the most, he's more recent, he has a creator in Jurgens who is still with the company and knows the characters as well as the new continuity (New 52), and he comes with a much needed Superboy and a Lois Lane who is more traditional yet still a modern woman as opposed to the ones you might find in the Silver and Bronze Age. I don't think the reason they went with this Superman to be that mysterious or incredible.

Its neither a mystery nor incredible, its just short-sighted and foolhardy. Nothing they're doing here could not have been accomplished with a smoother transition using the main guy. You want a married, older Superman with a kid? There are an infinite number of ways to get that without polarizing your fanbase (more than we already are) and adding needless complexity to the mythos.

What they're trying to gain is great. How they're trying to do it is, like most reboot-style things (no, this isnt a reboot but the result is similar), only going to create more problems.

[Kuwagaton]

Honestly I'd rather have him stay gone if only because changing the change seems like a waste of time.

[adrikito]

Honestly I'd rather have him stay gone if only because changing the change seems like a waste of time.

Is not a waste of time this change? Superdad: it's been years but finally I come to this world to take what does not belong to me..

Goodbye Fortress of Solitude, Kandor, Supergirl, Clark Kent and Daily Planet.. etc.. all related with superman will disappear.. we must now focus on a family and lose the rest? where is there superman?

Yes, we have gained much with the change if this was permanent... For the love of this old version and his family(It is that they could have another role?).. By the fact that DC failed to carry things right.

[Sacred Knight]

The waste of time was shoehorning the old version into the new verse to begin with. But, what's done is done in that respect. And bringing the New 52 version back to the world he belongs to isn't necessarily "Changing the change" because Superdad likely isn't leaving when he gets back. He'll get one of the titles back (or two more will be reinstated, like Adventures and Man of Steel), and the like, but they won't get rid of him now.

[Ascended]

The waste of time was shoehorning the old version into the new verse to begin with. But, what's done is done in that respect. And bringing the New 52 version back to the world he belongs to isn't necessarily "Changing the change" because Superdad likely isn't leaving when he gets back. He'll get one of the titles back (or two more will be reinstated, like Adventures and Man of Steel), and the like, but they won't get rid of him now.

I think the sales will decide that.

If Superdad doesnt increase sales, or if they drop even further when the dust settles, Superman will be back and Superdad will likely be shunted off, either to a supporting role for Jon or out of the picture entirely.

If sales stay where they are or only increase slightly, Superman will be back and Superdad will stick around.

If Superdad raises sales by a significant margin, DC will retain that status quo for as long as it remains viable.

I suspect Superman's hinted-at return is merely so DC can cover their bases; much like the fabled backdoor built into COIE; there if you need it, but not something you have to follow through on.

[Sacred Knight]

We differ a bit in that respect, I'm still thinking its right in the plan. I'm betting the plan is for this to be some multi-chapter epic, which among other things include the New 52 version's return. But hey its anyone's guess at this point, all we have our suspicions based on whatever info we can glean right now. I was doing 180's all over the place in the weeks after the initial announcement, so who knows if my feeling for all that's worth doesn't change again.

[vasir12]

Won't the Death of Superman arc be 25 years old in November? That's my bet on when Superman comes back.

[Kuwagaton]

The waste of time was shoehorning the old version into the new verse to begin with. But, what's done is done in that respect. And bringing the New 52 version back to the world he belongs to isn't necessarily "Changing the change" because Superdad likely isn't leaving when he gets back. He'll get one of the titles back (or two more will be reinstated, like Adventures and Man of Steel), and the like, but they won't get rid of him now.

Yeah it is. Regardless of whether Clark goes off to be electric Superman, retires to raise Jon, or gets turned into red mist by cyborg Superman, to establish a protagonist and then switch them is making the change. I wouldn't have imagined it happening before March at all and wouldn't really have recommended doing what we suspect they're doing, but it's happening now. All power to them if they want another death and return, but imo it's more efficient to make use of what they have. Isn't that the ongoing complaint about the removal of new Clark? If (some, who knows what percent of) people are this unhappy, will these same motions really solve anything that buckling down and going strong with a new direction won't solve?

Also, the idea of bringing back secondary books is weird because Superman has barely been holding two titles. Going monthly and changing up the four weekly issues just means paying more people and dividing fans further with alternatives.