Why can't Marvel admit some of the BAD STUFF that Civil War caused outside of the good ?

[Mike_Murdock]

It helped Bucky b/c he became Captain America and anchored an acclaimed run on the character, and ushered in Steve's return from the dead and actually stayed on as Cap while Steve did other stuff.

Actually, this happened because of Ed Brubaker's Captain America book, not because of Civil War. The death of Captain America happened at the same time as the end of Civil War, but it wasn't a Civil War story and wasn't caused by the events in Civil War.

[Coal Tiger]

Actually, this happened because of Ed Brubaker's Captain America book, not because of Civil War. The death of Captain America happened at the same time as the end of Civil War, but it wasn't a Civil War story and wasn't caused by the events in Civil War.

Cap was shot on the steps of a courthouse after he got arrested due to the events of Civil War. I don't think it was Millar's idea, but the death of Cap is a direct result of Civil War.

[Carabas]

Cap was shot on the steps of a courthouse after he got arrested due to the events of Civil War. I don't think it was Millar's idea, but the death of Cap is a direct result of Civil War.

Ed Brubaker was still going to kill off Steve Rogers and have Bucky be Captain America for a while even if Civil War didn't happen. Thatr's how he plotted it out before Civil War was even an idea.

Circumstances would be different, but he'd still be dead(ish). He was shot by a Faustused Sharon Carter, and she could just as easily have done that while he slept.

[JimRaynor55]

There's being willing to acknowledge mistakes, and then there's going out of your way to trash the marketing of your comic books and blockbuster film to pander to disgruntled vocal fanboys.

I don't agree with a lot of the decisions in the Civil War comic. I'm glad that thhe Marvel Cinematic Universe has done a better job at preserving the integrity of its characters.

But seriously, the comic was not a failure in mainstream terms. Its sales were successful, and the trades are stocked in bookstores to this day. On the Goodreads website, nearly 22,000 customers gave the main story a 4.05 stars (out of 5) average.

Seems like there are quite a few people who liked this story. At the very least, some of its basic ideas proved to be good source material for the new movie.

Marvel is obviously going to focus on the positive when talking about its own history. You don't see them focusing on the racism and sexism of early comics, bringing up wife beater Hank Pym, etc.

[Garbledarber]

Why would they talk shit about their own product? Civil War is one of their big sellers even outside the movie, it's a popular well known storyline and the trade still sells. It makes no business movie to talk down their own product.

[Flash Gordon]

Civil War would have been an interesting elseworlds. Pretty horrible in-continuity though. I mean jezzus, what did they expect to do with Spider-Man after his outing? Was editorial really just like "eh, just do it and we'll just have the devil wipe it away next week"? Seems idiotic.

Also really damaged Iron Man for quite some time.

The film rocked, but it was just loosely based on the concept behind Civil War.

[Mike_Murdock]

Cap was shot on the steps of a courthouse after he got arrested due to the events of Civil War. I don't think it was Millar's idea, but the death of Cap is a direct result of Civil War.

It was the result of Dr. Faustus brainwashing Sharon Carter. It was set during the immediate aftermath of Civil War, but it could have happened either way.

[Carabas]

Civil War would have been an interesting elseworlds. Pretty horrible in-continuity though. I mean jezzus, what did they expect to do with Spider-Man after his outing? Was editorial really just like "eh, just do it and we'll just have the devil wipe it away next week"? Seems idiotic.

One More Day was conceived and planned before long Civil War was.
It's more like the writers used Civil War to make destroying the Spider-marriage more palatable to fans. Not that it worked.

Not that I see any reason why a status quo where Spider-Man's identity is publically known is problematic as long as writers choose to make that work.

The film rocked, but it was just loosely based on the concept behind Civil War.

Par for the course then, because the Winter Soldier and Age Of Ultron films didn't resemble the comicbook versions of that story either. They weren't even loosely based on them.

[JKtheMac]

Disagree....

Yep all good points, plus the main Civil War event is actually quite a good read despite the reception it always gets in places like this board. It is still selling and as far as I can tell it didn't need a reprint for the new movie because it wasn't out of print. Any Marvel trade that can stay in print is a stand out success, as marvel have a poor track record on long term trade sales.

[MyriVerse]

I know it's bad to speak ill of the company

Since when?

♫ If you want to destroy my sweater ♫
♫ Hold this thread as I walk away ♫
♫ Watch me unravel, I'll soon be naked ♫
♫ Lying on the floor (lying on the floor) ♫
♫ I've come undone ♫

[t hedge coke]

One More Day was conceived and planned before long Civil War was.
It's more like the writers used Civil War to make destroying the Spider-marriage more palatable to fans. Not that it worked.

They've been fairly open that knowing One More Day was happening, they felt freed up to really mess with things more in intermediate events like Civil War.

[Dabrikishaw]

No business will ever admit they messed up.

[Pat Thomas]

Sales is not a sufficient justification to take a huge steaming dump all over beloved characters. If Marvel couldn't be bothered to write a good story that didn't job out teams like the Warriors or turn characters like Tony into an Iron-suited fascist dictator and Reed Richards into one of the biggest human rights abusers in modern history then maybe Marvel should be sold to people who actually respectthe MU and respect the fanbase.

Someone who makes money by being a douche is still being a douche.

That might be true in a fantasy world. The sole purpose of a company is to make money. Marvel/Disney is not a non-profit
entity. Besides the major stockholders that everybody loves to hate, there are millions of individual shareholders with Disney
stock in their retirement account. It's money they are depending on for survival when they can no longer work. You or your
parents might be one of these people and don't even know it. Making money doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

[PhantomStranger]

That might be true in a fantasy world. The sole purpose of a company is to make money. Marvel/Disney is not a non-profit
entity. Besides the major stockholders that everybody loves to hate, there are millions of individual shareholders with Disney
stock in their retirement account. It's money they are depending on for survival when they can no longer work. You or your
parents might be one of these people and don't even know it. Making money doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

Obviously you don't understand the concept of "doing well by doing right". Or how about "what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world only to lose his soul?"

Of course it's not an "either/or" situation in any event. They could have chosen to do a story that didn't crap all over the characters and franchise that would have been just as good. There was nothing dictating that the only way to make money was by trashing the milieu and characters.

[PyroTwilight]

Considering how much Marvel had to backpedal or undo stuff caused by Civil War after a bit I've always considered that their willingness to admit their mistakes.


Reed had to get 4 stories to try to explain why he'd be Pro-Reg contrary to his history defending Mutant Rights and autonomy therein. With all but the last sounding ridiculous.
Pym was retconned to never being there.
Tony eventually mindwiped himself largely due to other circumstances but essentially the one big change was he no longer remembered Civil War (wonder why).


I think the only reason Civil War did so well sales wise was everyone was pumped to see Cap stomp Tony and then when Tony won everyone suddenly had a morbid wondering as to how this'd work.

All that and tie-ins that made Tony look ever more like a mustache twirling villain and set many up to pretty much not like Tony or Maria Hill ever again (well OK never's long but a good while).