What should Superman do to be the Man of Tomorrow?

[Doctor Know]

I think a big problem with Superman is a lack of direction for the character. I attribute that to expectations people (including writers) place on the character and the epithets (such as The Man of Tomorrow) that have become attached to the character. A lack of direction and no committed writers to really work out a path for him. But people insist that Superman is very important and that he matters. It's not to dissimilar to the problems with the Fantastic Four. No one really knows how to make them work today, but people keep saying they're important.

[JackDaw]

I think a big problem with Superman is a lack of direction for the character. I attribute that to expectations people (including writers) place on the character and the epithets (such as The Man of Tomorrow) that have become attached to the character. A lack of direction and no committed writers to really work out a path for him. But people insist that Superman is very important and that he matters. It's not to dissimilar to the problems with the Fantastic Four. No one really knows how to make them work today, but people keep saying they're important.

Except most people believe there's been substantially better recent Fantastic Four runs than Superman runs in mainstream continuity. No long recent Superman run has garnered half as many deeply enthusiastic comments as the Jonathan Hickman Fantastic Four/FF run.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Except most people believe there's been substantially better recent Fantastic Four runs than Superman runs in mainstream continuity. No long recent Superman run has garnered half as many deeply enthusiastic comments as the Jonathan Hickman Fantastic Four/FF run.

Definitely great run, just takes all those old Silver Age FF ideas and runs them through a 21st century body shop. Byrne did the same with his run, too! I wish Hickman would take a Superman book.

Anyways, "Preach the gospel at all times and when necessary use words". Superman, the man of tomorrow... He just leads by example. That's another reason the Legions great, they catch up to Superman in the 30 th century.

[Doctor Know]

Except most people believe there's been substantially better recent Fantastic Four runs than Superman runs in mainstream continuity. No long recent Superman run has garnered half as many deeply enthusiastic comments as the Jonathan Hickman Fantastic Four/FF run.

Definitely great run, just takes all those old Silver Age FF ideas and runs them through a 21st century body shop. Byrne did the same with his run, too! I wish Hickman would take a Superman book.

Recently, I finally found a Hickman FF omnibus vol 1 I was willing to pay the price for ($160). A tad on the extravagant side, but consider new and used vol 1 Hickman omnibui are going for $300+ on Amazon and Ebay, I'm ok with it. I haven't started reading vol 1 or 2 yet, but I heard next to Lee/Kirby and Byrne's run of FF, Hickman is a solid 3rd.

Anyways, "Preach the gospel at all times and when necessary use words". Superman, the man of tomorrow... He just leads by example. That's another reason the Legions great, they catch up to Superman in the 30 th century.

Yeah, I think Superman and his LOSH connection is where his lasting legacy is the firmest. Hundreds of alien planets working together, coordinating on Earth, picking up costumes with symbols and using their powers to help others and defend the future is something Superman would be proud of.

Now if only DC could get a working version of the Legion and tether is back to Superboy and Superman. *Sigh* Nothing beats those late 70s, early to mid 80s Levitz run of LOSH.

[Jim Kelly]

There's a vital clue missing in all this fumbling around to explain why the FF and Superman have faltered a bit in recent years.

With the FF, it's likely because Marvel doesn't want them to succeed. As soon as Marvel Studios can get them back, you'll see a big push to create an FF franchise. That is if it isn't too late by then--which it could be. The super-hero movie bubble might have burst by then and Marvel could be on an irreversible downslide. But if the bubble doesn't burst--a Fantastic Four reboot could be the new blood that Marvel Studios needs to kickstart a new round of movies.

The FF were always the heart and soul of Marvel and everything in the Marvel Universe spins out from them. It's hard to believe that Marvel has let such an important concept fall down. But clearly, if they wanted to, they could push them back up. There's nothing outdated in the concept.

So by accident, maybe we've stumbled onto the problem with Superman. Not that Superman is a problem, but DC didn't have the will to make Superman an important figure in their comic universe or in their Batman centred movies. It's pretty clear when you look at the hash job they did on Superman prior to Flashpoint, that DC had no interest in giving the character the support he needed.

We can all speculate about the internal legal and commercial reasons why that might be. But it's not about Superman being a bad concept for these times. It's simply a lack of corporate will.

Now that they seem to want to make something out of Superman--the built up inertia might be too great to get that ship moving again. DC might have missed the best point in time to launch a Superman franchise--they let the parade pass them by while they were settling internecine squabbles.

[JackDaw]

There's a vital clue missing in all this fumbling around to explain why the FF and Superman have faltered a bit in recent years.

With the FF, it's likely because Marvel doesn't want them to succeed. As soon as Marvel Studios can get them back, you'll see a big push to create an FF franchise. That is if it isn't too late by then--which it could be. The super-hero movie bubble might have burst by then and Marvel could be on an irreversible downslide. But if the bubble doesn't burst--a Fantastic Four reboot could be the new blood that Marvel Studios needs to kickstart a new round of movies.

The FF were always the heart and soul of Marvel and everything in the Marvel Universe spins out from them. It's hard to believe that Marvel has let such an important concept fall down. But clearly, if they wanted to, they could push them back up. There's nothing outdated in the concept.

So by accident, maybe we've stumbled onto the problem with Superman. Not that Superman is a problem, but DC didn't have the will to make Superman an important figure in their comic universe or in their Batman centred movies. It's pretty clear when you look at the hash job they did on Superman prior to Flashpoint, that DC had no interest in giving the character the support he needed.

We can all speculate about the internal legal and commercial reasons why that might be. But it's not about Superman being a bad concept for these times. It's simply a lack of corporate will.

Now that they seem to want to make something out of Superman--the built up inertia might be too great to get that ship moving again. DC might have missed the best point in time to launch a Superman franchise--they let the parade pass them by while they were settling internecine squabbles.

I think you one to something, Jim.

The Marvel universe did grow "organically" around the four...while DC has grown willy nilly as extra characters have entered or left over the years and DC has taken over other companies characters.

The end result is that if you look at Superman's status in his own fictional universe...you have to wonder why the other fictional heroes would regard him as "first among equals". DC has allowed him to become limited and circumscribed by the other characters. (Batman must be more intelligent, Wonder Woman be a better warrior, Green Lantern have more all round power....and Flash must be many times faster.)

The relaunch of DCU gave DC a genuine chance to do something about it. And they made an half hearted attempt to give Superman unique status in the fictional world by making him the "first public super hero"...but it was half hearted. If you took Stormwatch "seriously" for example there had been super powered guys hundreds of years before Superman...and in Stormwatch alone there were half a dozen characters that would have wiped floor with Superman in an all out fight.

My own belief is that we're unlikely ever to see a great long Superman run in main continuity in my lifetime. Because the most likely way to do that would be to put a really good editor, writer and artist in control, and reduce mainstream output to one comic a month. DC will not do that...because Superman (in spite of indifferent comics) sells in semi-respectable numbers across several comics a month. He's a useful cash cow to DC...no doubt they see need to ensure a reasonable quality of output, but they aren't (and can't be) totally focussed on producing something really, really top notch.

[dogwelder]

He should be married to Lois and have a son named Jon.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

He should be an incredibly progressive figure.

That will never happen though, because it would mean polarizing and losing readers, and regularly drawing negative attention from conservative media outlets.

Superman should not be a character that abides by the status quo, and have meetings with the President, whether it be about doing some mission, standing down from superheroics like in Legends, or conversing with the President like he did in Truth.

I guess that's the downside of becoming such a huge cultural icon. He has to appeal to "everyone", which means he cant really be the Man of Tomorrow, he can only be the Sort of Man of Today.

[JackDaw]

He should be married to Lois and have a son named Jon.

That in a nutshell is probably one way, we'd getter better comics "on average"...some willingness to actually make a permanent change in main characters life that builds on the earlier stories.

[JackDaw]

He should be an incredibly progressive figure.

That will never happen though, because it would mean polarizing and losing readers, and regularly drawing negative attention from conservative media outlets.

Superman should not be a character that abides by the status quo, and have meetings with the President, whether it be about doing some mission, standing down from superheroics like in Legends, or conversing with the President like he did in Truth.

I guess that's the downside of becoming such a huge cultural icon. He has to appeal to "everyone", which means he cant really be the Man of Tomorrow, he can only be the Sort of Man of Today.

So tempted to agree with that. I always think that it's almost got to point where Superman is the character where we are less likely to see really good consistent comics from. Too many editors, writers and artists pumping out too many comics for a start...and above them TV and Film and marketing guys wanting some assurance that the "brand image" isn't effected. He's become a PR exercise rather than a character used to tell stories with.

But Batman and Spider-man have all the same problems... and we get good long comic runs there.

[NeuroticNyx]

He should be an incredibly progressive figure.

That will never happen though, because it would mean polarizing and losing readers, and regularly drawing negative attention from conservative media outlets.

Superman should not be a character that abides by the status quo, and have meetings with the President, whether it be about doing some mission, standing down from superheroics like in Legends, or conversing with the President like he did in Truth.

I guess that's the downside of becoming such a huge cultural icon. He has to appeal to "everyone", which means he cant really be the Man of Tomorrow, he can only be the Sort of Man of Today.

That really depends on what you mean by 'progressive'. I don't want Superman to become a propaganda mouthpiece.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

So tempted to agree with that. I always think that it's almost got to point where Superman is the character where we are less likely to see really good consistent comics from. Too many editors, writers and artists pumping out too many comics for a start...and above them TV and Film and marketing guys wanting some assurance that the "brand image" isn't effected. He's become a PR exercise rather than a character used to tell stories with.

But Batman and Spider-man have all the same problems... and we get good long comic runs there.

I think it's case of writers wanting to nudge the character of Superman forward in a way that they don't want to with Batman and Spider-Man, so when they can't actually do what they want to with the character, they lose whatever passion they had and we end up with mediocre runs.

They want to leave their mark on Superman, in a way they don't want to with any other character.

[JackDaw]

I think it's case of writers wanting to nudge the character of Superman forward in a way that they don't want to with Batman and Spider-Man, so when they can't actually do what they want to with the character, they lose whatever passion they had and we end up with mediocre runs.

They want to leave their mark on Superman, in a way they don't want to with any other character.

But look at the really good Batman and Spider-man runs. The creators have set out to alter and leave their marks on the character. The obvious recent-ish example on Batman is the Morrison run...Bruce's personality and competence set was substantially changed and Grant used a different Batman/ Robin to classic one for a long chunk of stories. Again Synder run has extended overall mythos. Over at Spider-man...John Romita completely changed way Peter Parker looked from original Ditko, and in present run Dan Slott has made substantial changes.

Perhaps one way forward would be to accept that comics readership has become a separate niche market..and you can take chances to the character in that market WITHOUT damaging the branding. Most of us comic readers are sophisticated...we don't really care if the guys in the film have a different set-up.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

But look at the really good Batman and Spider-man runs. The creators have set out to alter and leave their marks on the character. The obvious recent-ish example on Batman is the Morrison run...Bruce's personality and competence set was substantially changed and Grant used a different Batman/ Robin to classic one for a long chunk of stories. Again Synder run has extended overall mythos. Over at Spider-man...John Romita completely changed way Peter Parker looked from original Ditko, and in present run Dan Slott has made substantial changes.

Perhaps one way forward would be to accept that comics readership has become a separate niche market..and you can take chances to the character in that market WITHOUT damaging the branding. Most of us comic readers are sophisticated...we don't really care if the guys in the film have a different set-up.

Those are good examples of the changes those characters have undergone, but outside of hardcore comic fans, those aren't the kind of changes that will bother people, except for maybe Dick's time as Robin.

Writers are allowed to dabble in those kinds of changes with Superman too, but when it comes to things like Superman renouncing his American Citizenship, that causes media attention which brings with it a lot of negative responses. The impression I get is that writers don't want to be "apolitical" with Superman, but don't have much of a choice when they finally get to write him.

Only guys like Morrison are given that kind of freedom. If anyone else, barring Geoff Johns, had suggested the T-Shirt and Jeans Superman of the early Action Comics issues, it would have have been rejected at once.

[Jon-El]

To me one problem is traditionally, Superman worked best when the readers are younger. As readers have matured, it's been tougher & tougher to make a solid run. It's not impossible but rather it is harder. I also am not saying he only works best with kids. I just think it's easier when we're not looking at what he represents & just enjoy good adventure stories. There can be stories that examine his place in the world but if that's done regularly, it sucks the life out of the character.

Some writer needs to have a distinct vision & stick to it. Some fans what outer space adventures, some want social crusader, some want Boy Scout, some want rebel. A writer needs to come up with something & DC needs to stick with it.