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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    I'm not really a fan a MCU version of Asgard and Thor. It's a complete derivation of the comics version. Some people love Thor:Ranarok -- I thought it was a jokefest. So if Enchantress never finds her way into this mess -- so much the better.
    I liked all the Thor movies, but I have to admit, that I know Chris Yost, he's the son-in-law of a friend, we once got free seats for the premiere of Thor 2. I'm just not a perfectionist in most of the MCU translations from comics.

    Regardless, I loved Thor 3 more than the other two, but it was a little more silly than I liked. So my pref would be something that bridges the first 2 with 3. A little more serious.
    We'll see.
    But in general, the various cuts away from comic canon, Amora in this thread, but Hank and Jan as original Avengers, or Sharon as Steve's true love,

    or calculations based on what someone thinks the movie going audience wants as opposed to die hard fans or anything in between.
    Movies and scripting are with a different set of dynamics and protocols.
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    They’re keeping her out because the movies don’t want a villainess whose motivation is to do the nasty with the main hero.


    Simple as that.
    Also the power to control the desires of her victims has very unfortunate overtones that Marvel would probably not want to deal with.

    They used Enchanteress's younger sister Loreli in Agents of Shield as an Enchanteress lite and the fans noted her victim's lack of agency and how that ability is effectively sexual assault.There's no way it doesn't get called out by movie fans if it shows up in the films.

    Marvel often takes several lesser known comic villains and mixes them together to get the character they want. Movie Aldrich Killian was a mix of early aughts Mandarin, Modok and Extremis. Movie Ego is a mix of classic Ego and Elder of the Universe Gardener ( a particularly amoral version, true).

    The only way The Enchanteress is getting into an MCU movie is if she is actually Karnila, The Norn Queen in all but name.

    Karnila was a ruler of her own land and a rival to Odin for rule over Asgard. This didn't mean that she was without honor. Karnila is a foe that depending on the handling can even be a mystic anti hero that doesn't have the rapey power set/motivations of Amora.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Also the power to control the desires of her victims has very unfortunate overtones that Marvel would probably not want to deal with.

    They used Enchanteress's younger sister Loreli in Agents of Shield as an Enchanteress lite and the fans noted her victim's lack of agency and how that ability is effectively sexual assault.There's no way it doesn't get called out by movie fans if it shows up in the films.

    Marvel often takes several lesser known comic villains and mixes them together to get the character they want. Movie Aldrich Killian was a mix of early aughts Mandarin, Modok and Extremis. Movie Ego is a mix of classic Ego and Elder of the Universe Gardener ( a particularly amoral version, true).

    The only way The Enchanteress is getting into an MCU movie is if she is actually Karnila, The Norn Queen in all but name.

    Karnila was a ruler of her own land and a rival to Odin for rule over Asgard. This didn't mean that she was without honor. Karnila is a foe that depending on the handling can even be a mystic anti hero that doesn't have the rapey power set/motivations of Amora.
    They're putting a modernized Mandarin in Shang-Chi, so they could always just remove the problematic aspects of her characterization

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Also the power to control the desires of her victims has very unfortunate overtones that Marvel would probably not want to deal with.

    They used Enchanteress's younger sister Loreli in Agents of Shield as an Enchanteress lite and the fans noted her victim's lack of agency and how that ability is effectively sexual assault.There's no way it doesn't get called out by movie fans if it shows up in the films.

    Marvel often takes several lesser known comic villains and mixes them together to get the character they want. Movie Aldrich Killian was a mix of early aughts Mandarin, Modok and Extremis. Movie Ego is a mix of classic Ego and Elder of the Universe Gardener ( a particularly amoral version, true).

    The only way The Enchanteress is getting into an MCU movie is if she is actually Karnila, The Norn Queen in all but name.

    Karnila was a ruler of her own land and a rival to Odin for rule over Asgard. This didn't mean that she was without honor. Karnila is a foe that depending on the handling can even be a mystic anti hero that doesn't have the rapey power set/motivations of Amora.
    If you only stay with that, then you know absolutely nothing about the character because the Enchantress is quite different from her sister, Amora has more personality, charisma, power and a complexity equivalent to that of Loki because of that it is very canon the relationship and chemistry they always have had on comics everytime they are together.

    Currently if things are as they are in the most recent comics (especially in Strange Academy and Captain Marvel), a love for her children that has nothing to do with what she had always tried to look for in Thor for years.

    Also Sylvie Lushton is still a thing that probably she shows up on Loki tv series, even if she is truly different from Amora.
    Last edited by Charlie_1981; 05-09-2021 at 07:06 AM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    They're putting a modernized Mandarin in Shang-Chi, so they could always just remove the problematic aspects of her characterization
    Once you take away the problematic parts of the Enchanteress, you don't have a hell of a lot left, IMO.

    Karnila was both Kirby and Walt Simonson's go-to sexy evil sorceress for a reason.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Once you take away the problematic parts of the Enchanteress, you don't have a hell of a lot left, IMO.

    Karnila was both Kirby and Walt Simonson's go-to sexy evil sorceress for a reason.
    Well, they made Darren Cross into a movie villain, so if that's possible, Amora could still make it without those aspects, however bare her character would be

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Despite deeper understandings or canon of Amora, 2 things I remember about her is that

    she impersonated or sorta created the persona of Valkyrie, who is more or less the first or a first stab at a more feminist type super woman.

    And 2, she turned the Black Knight to stone, right?
    In a way, I would like to see those in the MCU, but probably not going to happen.
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  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Despite deeper understandings or canon of Amora, 2 things I remember about her is that

    she impersonated or sorta created the persona of Valkyrie, who is more or less the first or a first stab at a more feminist type super woman.

    And 2, she turned the Black Knight to stone, right?
    In a way, I would like to see those in the MCU, but probably not going to happen.
    You are correct. At first, there was mention by Amora of "The Valkyrie" but we did not know who she was, other than the persona given to Samantha Parrington. I think Roy Thomas took the idea and really expanded on it, which I am so thankful for, as I love the Valkyrie (Barbara Norris/Brunhilde)!

    Yes, Amora did indeed turn Dane into stone. She never lifted the curse either. But thankfully, many years later, it was reversed.

    That would make for a good movie idea and neat to see, of course with the reversal by the end of the film! Then Dane would be ready for the next one....
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I think it is unlikely to happen due to his presence in the Eternals.
    "We" could dig it, but most regular audiences couldn't absorb the arcs of these characters.
    The idea that Dane could bridge the Eternals mythos and also be part of the Asgardian mythos.
    My 'story-generator' says do the reverse! He's turned to stone and then Amora somehow releases him. Of course this smacks of sexism. Why would she do that unless she intended to use him for some reason?
    But I could almost relish the idea of Dane being used between Sersi and Amora. They are rather similar, hmmmm?
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