Ratings Collapse for Arrow and Legends

[Rogue Star]

What's going on with the dramatic decline in the 18-49 demo and total viewers of Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow? Unlike the Flash, which has remained very stable, they are both at or near series lows. In Legends case, it's almost in free fall. Check out these links:
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/th...ratings-38406/
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/dc...n-one-ratings/
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/ar...ratings-38484/

I doubt the CW would have renewed Legends if it were at these levels before they made their decision. I personally think both shows could use some major changes. I'd start with sending Sara back to Arrow and taking a very co-starring partnership roll as Black Canary (as in not just another member of team Arrow). Quentin Lance should be recurring only. Merlin should be killed off (by Thea) immediately. Legends desperately needs a new format. This time ship stuff is convoluted and claustrophobic.
Any thoughts on what's going on and what you might do to fix it?

I only started watching Arrow in season one for Slade Wilson. Once I realized I wasn't going to be getting as much of him as was advertised, I hung around just out of curiosity. But then I got tired of seeing Laurel's heartbreak face so I jumped ship.

[Black Manta]

The trouble with Legends is that it really doesn't seem like a super-hero show. 99% of the time the characters are running around in regular clothing. Costumes are key to superheroes.

[CaptainCarrot]

In my opinion, these superhero shows should all have fall storyline a and spring storylines with a winter break in between. No hiatus breaks, so were not stuck with lackluster plots or villains for an entire season. It might make for crisper faster-paced story telling.
Arrow suffers from boring nobodies as as antagonists, really? Damian Dahrk? Brother Blood was so unrecognizable compared to his comic self that he became a fail as a villain also. Enough with the whining of the characters too. I'm tired of hearing Oliver and John and Felicity feet guiltily about having to kill or hurt the bad guys or when they lose someone close. You don't expect it to be all butterflies and puppy dogs if you're playing vigilante.
As for Legends, those writers need to go read the Timemasters series. Lets see some repairing of damages to the timeline. Vandal Savage should not be an entire seasons villain. Heck, six issues of him as the villain in comics is pushing it. And yes, someone please watch some Doctor Who or some of the better time travel movies. This team is doing more damage to the timeline than they should. Put Vandal to the back burner and give us some newer time antagonists. There are plenty in the DC universe. Making Heatwave turn out to be Chronos was a mistake. Just do some homework about time travel on this show because the core audience isn't stupid.
End of rant

[kingaliencracker]

ARROW needs a retooling. If there was ever a show that would benefit from a time-jump, ARROW would certainly qualify. Unfortunately, that would undoubtedly jack up the spin-off shows so it's highly unlikely to happen. But there are smaller things they can do, like lowering the sidekicks, ending Oliver/Felicity, and somehow begging Katie Cassidy to come back.

LoT started off awkwardly but has managed to put together some fairly entertaining episodes, even in spite of its poor writing and plot development at times. But if you look, the ratings drop coincided with the early renewal, so it seems very likely that fans are simply catching it via streaming or DVR.

[AdamFTF]

Honestly, I just couldn't keep up with all the shows I was watching, so Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow fell by the wayside. And I usually watch them on Hulu plus, so that's saying something.

[NeoStar9X]

ARROW needs a retooling. If there was ever a show that would benefit from a time-jump, ARROW would certainly qualify. Unfortunately, that would undoubtedly jack up the spin-off shows so it's highly unlikely to happen. But there are smaller things they can do, like lowering the sidekicks, ending Oliver/Felicity, and somehow begging Katie Cassidy to come back.

LoT started off awkwardly but has managed to put together some fairly entertaining episodes, even in spite of its poor writing and plot development at times. But if you look, the ratings drop coincided with the early renewal, so it seems very likely that fans are simply catching it via streaming or DVR.

It would be interesting to see what the +3 Days and +7 Days are for the shows when it comes to ratings. At least for Legends. Arrow I think is purely suffering from story decisions they've made with the show. That 15% drop is what I expected after the backlash from them killing the Black Canary. The previous episode was the fallout and people would of course want to see if she was really dead. After that point if it turned you off enough why bother with the show and they skipped the most recent episode. Granted it could be a one time thing but drops like this usually happened I think right before a break. In that case I assume people would just dvr the episode since they had time as there would be no episode for the next few weeks when that happen. There is no break here so the fault can be traced right back what they did in the episodes prior. What will be telling is the ratings for this weeks episode. Won't be surprised if they drop again as we lead into the finale.

Legends also could be suffering from some story decisions. Characters act stupidly on that show for whatever reason. I still enjoy it but I can see people washing their hands of it as it goes on. They should know what works now and what doesn't so season 2 should be different.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Well I stopped watching both no surprise other people did too.

[protege]

What surprises me is that i stopped watching flash.

[Sandy Hausler]

Trying to catch up on last 1/2 of S3 and all of S4 of Arrow, is it really as bad as has been said?

I know there are some people who despise the show and criticize everything that is done. I do not agree with them. While I don't agree with some of the decisions made by the characters (really, the writers, but you know what I mean), I think the show is worth seeing, and I anxiously await it every week. As far as I can see, as far as stupid decisions are concerned, Flash and Legends of Tomorrow are much worse on that point.

I'm amused that the people who hated Laurel during the first season are howling with fury now that she is dead.

Oh, and just for the record, while I was not an Oliver/Felcity "'shipper", I thought they were a nice couple and their breakup seemed forced to me. But if the writers can make it work, all the power to them.

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

All the CW shows have been making me questioning myself "why i'ms still watching?" I'm 100% sure i'll not be watching LoT next season.

You can read comic books instead.

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

Well no surprise there.

The stories (and Felicity) are awful and Oliver is Batman-lite....which doesn't work anymore...people have caught on.

They've "caught on"? what the heck does that mean?

Sandy Hausler

[dan12456]

I know there are some people who despise the show and criticize everything that is done. I do not agree with them. While I don't agree with some of the decisions made by the characters (really, the writers, but you know what I mean), I think the show is worth seeing, and I anxiously await it every week. As far as I can see, as far as stupid decisions are concerned, Flash and Legends of Tomorrow are much worse on that point.

I'm amused that the people who hated Laurel during the first season are howling with fury now that she is dead.

Oh, and just for the record, while I was not an Oliver/Felcity "'shipper", I thought they were a nice couple and their breakup seemed forced to me. But if the writers can make it work, all the power to them.

Sandy Hausler

Yeah agreed it's still one of my fav shows even if quality has decreased since season 2 a bit. And I think a lot of people who complain do it because its the cool thing to do, not cause they watch the show. Because who would still be wasting their time watching a show they dislike?
Also I think Arrow is easily better than Flash or LoT at this point.

[phantom1592]

I'm amused that the people who hated Laurel during the first season are howling with fury now that she is dead.

Oh, and just for the record, while I was not an Oliver/Felcity "'shipper", I thought they were a nice couple and their breakup seemed forced to me. But if the writers can make it work, all the power to them.

Sandy Hausler

LOL. Agreed. I never heard a kind word about Laurel.... EVER. I never had a problem with her, but MAN the hate she seemed to inspire O.O Now that she's dead people are complaining about THAT?!?

I agree about the break up. I am a huge fan of Felicity... but honestly liked her better with Barry or Ray. Ollie spends too much time in brooding jerk mode, but frankly that break up was inspired by the least of his problems/secrets. Considering all the things she's gotten past and forgiven... the secret son was nothing. Really made her look pretty awful there throwing that fit.

[Hawkman]

Honestly, I'm not at all surprised. I haven't enjoyed Arrow since it started, and even The Flash has never quite worked for me, at least not nearly as well as it's seemed to with most other DC fans. I was actually going to drop both shows this season, but when I heard that Hawkgirl and later Hawkman would be appearing, that sort of changed the entire equation for me.

That said, though, I've been very disappointed by the handling of both the characters, as well as Legends of Tomorrow in general, which is by far the worst series of the bunch, in my opinion. Unless there's a tremendous turnaround here in the closing weeks of these shows, I'll be checking out on all three. I'm glad other people are enjoying them, and I hope they can turn around their prospects, because I really do want to like them, too, but for the time being, I just can't stay on board.

[Doctor Bifrost]

As someone who hasn't been keeping up with it lately, how are the characters in LoT stupid?

Unfortunately I don't have the time to give a complete answer to this question. But here's one thing: whenever they have the rare circumstances to actually complete their goal (killing Vandal Savage) - one of the Hawks, in possession of a specific kind of magic weapon - they always set it up so that it's Hawk-person vs. Savage one-one-one, instead of using their powerful characters (Firestorm, in particular) to incapacitate Savage so they can finish him off. Got Carter killed early on; wasted their great opportunity with Kendra in the 1950's,

What Ray did when facing an imprisoned Vandal Savage recently - after Ray had been told about three times, "He's trying to get inside your head and provoke you!" - was so dumb, and such a tremendous risk to Kendra and the other people he cared about - that it needs a word stronger than "stupid."

(I'm sure some people will come up with justifications for each of those, as people do. But really it's just the tip of the iceberg.)