Action Comics #52 Discussion

[DieHard200904]

My point was the Eradicator at the time used SuperDad's recovering energies to recover himself. This New-52 Eradicator will do the same, but accidentally extract the K-energy that messed New-52 SM up as SM also heals in a regeneration chamber in his Fortress or something similar. Perhaps through this, he'll acquire resistance if not outright immunity from Green K. It's not a certainty of mine that he'll get the immunity. Just an idea.
But yes, I am skeptical myself to the idea that they'll let him keep this trait if by some chance, if indeed, they actually give it to him.

Yeah, sounds about right. I have to think though, since Kara has been given the keys, how kara won't notice there's suddenly a guy appearing in the FOS that looks like Kal?

[A Guy's Name]

Yeah, sounds about right. I have to think though, since Kara has been given the keys, how kara won't notice there's suddenly a guy appearing in the FOS that looks like Kal?

Not sure about this particular point, myself. Either he gets the keys by stealing or maybe he'll exploit the electronically damaged Fortress (as a result from the merger thing from Savage Dawn). That or perhaps Eradicator being a computer program once in SG's Sanctuary could hack the Fortress somehow. Perhaps he'll execute his plan by covert action or by somehow defeating SG.
For now, I'm not sure.

[vasir12]

Not perhaps none of this happens in the fortress

[A Guy's Name]

Not perhaps none of this happens in the fortress

Perhaps in SG's Sanctuary?

[DieHard200904]

Given that now sone chatter has started on comparing Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen/Return of Superman, maybe we should start a topic on that

[SuperCrab]

Certainly a better issue than anything else since the first Batman/Superman chapter, and Dale Eaglesham's a natural fit for Superman. Still, a line as stiff as "How dare you violate the sanctity of my home!" doesn't fill me with much hope for Tomasi's take on Superdad (and something about Jon as he wrote him irritated me in a way he hasn't under Jurgens), and of course by the end this is turning into the like 5th "Superman fights ersatz evil Superman" story in as many years.

I dropped my subscription to Lois and Clark as soon as it was announced that SuperDad would be taking over more main books, but in the early issues of that series, at least, I felt the character they established was the type of character who would say something like "How dare you violate the sanctity of my home!", as he did here in Action Comics #52.

The early SuperDad, just from my perspective, and limited to the issues and titles I've read, is being written as a very stern parental figure. He's basically the arrogant Boy Scout that people always negatively stereotype Superman as, with a dose of "Get off my lawn!" and a very intense protective streak towards his wife and kid, plus a bit of ambivalence towards the outside world (i.e. "It's not really my universe, I guess I'll sort of help some. I wish I were home.").

Now, if you're writing a book about Jon White, kid superhero (A book which I'd hate, but I know a few people might read), that characterization of Clark White kind of works, because in a book about a kid superhero that sort of takes his perspective, you'd have the parent as sort of both a mentor and a roadblock and protector of him, and see the parent as the kid sees him to some degree, stern and so forth. And then the kid tries to evade punishments and rules and then sees the light in the end and realizes his father was right. I mean, not something I'd be interested in reading, but that's a logical set up *if* the next book were going to be "The Adventures of Superboy" with Jon White as Superboy and Clark White in a supporting role as his father.

It also somewhat works as a way of differentiating to the two flesh and blood Supermen in this issue and in the next couple issues (Assuming they're both in them).

However, this way of characterizing Superman in the long run when it comes to titles he's taking over like Action Comics and Superman, may hurt sales tremendously. I don't think it connects with many people under 50, and maybe not even many people period.

Superman is a great iconic character as a generalization, but over and over again through the years, comic book fans have had a major criticism of him being too much like an arrogant Boy Scout father figure. Now he is older and literally a father, and seemingly more arrogant than ever before. And some of his usual good qualities- put saving the world ahead of anything else, are compromised a bit by his family situation, where he clearly views them as more important. I am not saying in a general sense it is a horrible thing to put your family before the world when it comes to who you're most looking out for in real life, but it's a bad characterization for a comic book superhero who you want people to like.

It lends some extra credence in my mind to my theory that some of these titles, or all of them, really are going to be primarily about Jon, no matter what it says on the cover, and that they are going to make Superman look bad to make Jon look good. Despite my dislike of Jon and of kid superheroes in general, I'd say if Superdad were not the world's primary Superman and were not on the main titles, and you were going to insist on writing Jon White as a 10 year old superhero, you basically do this. But this is Superman's own book. How do you recover from introducing a new Superman, or reintroduce an old Superman, to a whole new generation, and making him look bad to get people to like his kid? It might help the kid, but people may never like SuperDad as a result.

Now, if they were planning to have new52 Superman come back and replace Superdad as the main Superman, or to reboot and come up with a totally different Superman from either of them, *maybe* the titles could recover from that type of characterization. I mean, it'd lend credence to some people's theory that the plan all along has been to have new52 Superman return and retake his spot long-term, but I am still skeptical and tend to think Superdad is here to stay unless sales plummet (I just wanted to toss a bone to my fellow new52 Superman fans who want to believe he's coming back and give them something else to support their theory, even though I think their theory is inaccurate. I want to believe he's coming back, too, even though I don't think that's Plan A for the editors.).

My gut feeling is editorial aren't big Superman fans personally (I know Didio always wears that Superman cap, but most people think that's cover because he was criticized for years as not being a Superman guy), but they know they have a character who is valuable and iconic.

So, I think what we're seeing here with SuperDad's characterization and then his eventual takeover of the main books is a mixture of three things:

1. Because editorial aren't big Superman fans, but know they have a valuable property, there's an element of "Look, we tried to make Superman what we thought was a better character for the new52. We feel like fans didn't like that or are kind of complaining. So, we'll just replace him with the older version and they can have their giant arrogant Boy Scout father figure back, because they won't accept any improvements or modernizations, and then we can just let them run on auto-pilot and rake in money. We give up.". (Even though their stereotype of Superman, which to be fair is widely held by people and not unique to them, isn't necessarily who the guy ever really was- but it could be who he will be in these comics).


2. Since editorial knows Superman is iconic and has an audience, and assuming they don't really like him or are bored with him, it's kind of a natural that they would use him to launch a character that they *do* like. My feeling is that they love the Jon concept for whatever reason. And since they don't really care for Superman, they just figure, "Hey, let's use the Superman books to gain an audience for the character we created and like, even if it hurts Superman.", perhaps figuring Superman has diehard fans who'll buy his main titles no matter what they do, and that maybe they are down to mostly just those readers, and that they won't lose too much readership trying.

3. They figure a shakeup and the old numbering marching to AC #1000, plus a new #1 issue for the SM title, will get them publicity and extra sales short-term.

I am not happy with any of it, really, but it is what it is.

Other than the Trinity moments, this was at best passable. I hate the idea of The New 52's time frame expanding an additional 5 years just to accommodate Superdad aka SuperDeadBeat, who allowed Superman to take all the hits - for I guess a freaking decade now instead of 5 years - that culminated in Superman dying while SuperDeadBeat operated in shadows/sub rosa/cowardly. Hate it big time.

Originally, the new52 timeline had most of the action occurring in the present, then-2011, but implied that many superheroes had been around for 5 years, with some flashbacks like Action Comics' first issues showing things that we thought were set in 2006ish. So 2006-2016 would be 10 years, counted that way. Is that what they are saying equals ten years? Or are they saying that it's been 10 years between the 2011 and 2016 comics (Totaling 15 if we count the ones we thought were 2006)?

If they are counting 2011-2016 in real time as 10 years in comic time, that'd be weird for many reasons, one of which is that comic time usually if anything moves slower than real life rather than faster than it, and another being that they really didn't write it as 10 years or age people properly for 10 years. Like if Damian Wayne was 10 or 12 in the new52 Batman #1 and such, wouldn't be be 20 or 22 years old right now? I'm not following those comics, but from what I see, he's clearly not in his 20s.

[andersonh1]

This is the first issue of Action I've bought since sampling and being disappointed with "Doomed", and prior to that, since giving up on Grant Morrison's storyline around issue 6. This really ought to be Action Comics 956, so even the numbering irritates me.

That being said, it's good to see a Superman I care about back in the pages of Action Comics. The meeting between him and New 52 Superman is more appetizer than anything... intriguing, but I defintely want to see more. Superman and Wonder Woman together just feels wrong to me... I see now why writers avoided it for so long. It is nice to see Batman and Superman are better friends again... it seems strange to have a darker and edgier DC Universe that has gone back to a friendship from the Silver and Bronze Age characterization of these two characters. But it's good to see.

It seems like New 52 Superman's good friend and his significant other would be more insistent on finding a cure rather than indulging him about looking for the energy creature.

Good issue. I'll be glad to see New 52 Superman gone, but I can't really say I want to see him killed off. Here's hoping for a story twist of some sort.

[Tayswift]

However, this way of characterizing Superman in the long run when it comes to titles he's taking over like Action Comics and Superman, may hurt sales tremendously. I don't think it connects with many people under 50, and maybe not even many people period.

he chaacterization is great even in this issue, only one line from Tomasi. Patrick gleason is a better writer, and he is my hope to superman turn out better book

[Lokimaru]

I have no idea why you assume that Pre-Flashpoint Superman did not take any hits for Superman for a decade. For all we know, his actions in the shadows saved New 52 quite a bit. And, frankly, wouldn't you hate it more if New 52 needed help all this time from a Superman from another world?

No pre-52's action probibly contributed to nu52 not being ready for bigger threats down the line. Pe52 once even said the reason he's so good at fighting villians is cause he always fight villians multiple times. He basically stole nu52's exp preventing him from leveling. Maybe the reason nuSupes isn't with Lois is cause that Achievement have already dinged by Pre52 already being with her like using mods or cheats locks achievements. Pre52 very presence may have changed the way things were supposed to go like the butterfly effect. Nature hates being fucked with.

[Sacred Knight]

Superman's good friend and lover can't search for a cure because its editorially mandated that Superman "die". There has to be nothing that can be done, at least for now. Tomasi's hands are tied there. Superman saying its hopeless just because it is and having Diana and Bruce help him fix this situation is the best he can do from a writing perspective.

[misslane]

No pre-52's action probibly contributed to nu52 not being ready for bigger threats down the line. Pe52 once even said the reason he's so good at fighting villians is cause he always fight villians multiple times. He basically stole nu52's exp preventing him from leveling. Maybe the reason nuSupes isn't with Lois is cause that Achievement have already dinged by Pre52 already being with her like using mods or cheats locks achievements. Pre52 very presence may have changed the way things were supposed to go like the butterfly effect. Nature hates being fucked with.

You're basically making an argument in favor of more and bigger threats for Superman. In other words, Superman would be in a better position to help and save humanity if humanity was threatened more. It's nonsensical.

[DieHard200904]

Superman's good friend and lover can't search for a cure because its editorially mandated that Superman "die". There has to be nothing that can be done, at least for now. Tomasi's hands are tied there. Superman saying its hopeless just because is the best he can do.

I hope he gets in a last fight or something. Editorial needs to cut with the stupid Crossover events.

[misslane]

Superman's good friend and lover can't search for a cure because its editorially mandated that Superman "die". There has to be nothing that can be done, at least for now. Tomasi's hands are tied there. Superman saying its hopeless just because is the best he can do.

It's interesting that this same sympathetic logic is not applied to Pre-Flashpoint Superman's lack of public involvement in some of the biggest conflicts of the New 52. When it comes to New 52 Superman, it's okay to settle on the excuse that he's doing the best he can do within the confines of what editorial mandates allow him to do. Yet, if it makes editorial sense for Pre-Flashpoint Superman to help in the shadows, then he clearly is not doing the best he can do. No sympathy for him!

[Sacred Knight]

My thought is that Solarman will try some last ditch flare to kill them all after falling into complete insanity but Superman stops it, "killing" him quicker in the process. Either he dies in Diana's arms or he's seemingly incinerated, maybe stopping Solarman by flying him into the sun to flare or something.

[Francisco]

It's interesting that this same sympathetic logic is not applied to Pre-Flashpoint Superman's lack of public involvement in some of the biggest conflicts of the New 52. When it comes to New 52 Superman, it's okay to settle on the excuse that he's doing the best he can do within the confines of what editorial mandates allow him to do. Yet, if it makes editorial sense for Pre-Flashpoint Superman to help in the shadows, then he clearly is not doing the best he can do. No sympathy for him!

Because pre-flashpoint Superman isn't supposed to be here to begin with. He is an invader. He should've stay in his own reality. But I don't blame him. He doesn't write himself.