Action Comics #52 Discussion

[Sacred Knight]

It's interesting that this same sympathetic logic is not applied to Pre-Flashpoint Superman's lack of public involvement in some of the biggest conflicts of the New 52. When it comes to New 52 Superman, it's okay to settle on the excuse that he's doing the best he can do within the confines of what editorial mandates allow him to do. Yet, if it makes editorial sense for Pre-Flashpoint Superman to help in the shadows, then he clearly is not doing the best he can do. No sympathy for him!

I have the same sympathy for Jurgens that I have for Tomasi in this regard. My criticisms of him of writing Action is just that I don't think he's that good a writer anymore. But that's separate from the issue of Superdad's plot holes. I know Jurgens didn't create those and don't blame him for not having a good answer for them.

[Francisco]

My thought is that Solarman will try some last ditch flare to kill them all after falling into complete insanity but Superman stops it, "killing" him quicker in the process. Either he dies in Diana's arms or he's seemingly incinerated, maybe stopping Solarman by flying him into the sun to flare or something.

If I had my way the blast would heal him immediately and will open a portal to a reformed post crisis reality where Superdad and his family would return to live happily ever after and have adventures of their own

[DieHard200904]

If I had my way the blast would heal him immediately and will open a portal to a reformed post crisis reality where Superdad and his family would return to live happily ever after and have adventures of their own

If I were running DC, I would have

1: Not mandated Superman into Crossover Events
2: Done a crossover event and made P52 a "Reign" character who entered N52 universe by an accidental event with a 14 year old Jon.
3) Using the "Reign" promote them as a Super Duo of Some universe I am just going to Call Earth-X as the P52 Universe. Their presence in Reign would be a promotion for the other universe. Fewer plot holes, and better characterization that way.

[RobinFan4880]

Enjoyable issue. Not a fan of the art but it was ok. The story is definitely picking up. The last issue was total filler while simultaneously setting Kenan up.

This issue was nice. It brought the three Supermen together and puts them on the path towards something meaningful going forward. Can't wait to see the fallout from, "You've been here for 5 years!?"

"Yes. I prevented natural disasters and future problems."

"Why didn't you help us with Darkseid!?"

"This is not my universe. It is not my place to step in and protect it, that is your duty. This is your world and you are its one and only Superman."

"With great power..."

"Which is why I stopped future threats and natural disasters, helping out with villains on the fringe."

"I would have known about you if you tried to help."

"You did not find me because I hid myself."

"But I can hear EVERYTHING."

"I know all about that. I am you, after all. I have lived with these powers longer than you. I know how to evade my own attention."

plot holes

*i was never fan of hear everything, because it leaves everything contrived

EXACTLY. It was a dumb idea to begin with. It only serves to constrain future writing.

well they had to waste time with smww sweet moments, and screw over lois, jimmy and perry. that is why I won't miss new 52 superman

man, when everyone was full rage because superdad was taking over and weeks filled lots of coments like "want him dead, want his son dead" I said nothing, because it is free speech.
people have the right to express theirselves. if the mistakes keep happening, it is inmy right express it.

As if Jimmy and Perry have really been a part of Clark's life in the New 52.

[vasir12]

People really need to let this whole "plot hole" thing go. It's a shared universe where most people don't help out in each other's books cause that isn't the story. Let it go and nitpick things that matter. Like, "sanctity of my house."

[Tayswift]

As if Jimmy and Perry have really been a part of Clark's life in the New 52.

jimmy was very present, perry was amajor point on Truth

[DieHard200904]

Enjoyable issue. Not a fan of the art but it was ok. The story is definitely picking up. The last issue was total filler while simultaneously setting Kenan up.

This issue was nice. It brought the three Supermen together and puts them on the path towards something meaningful going forward. Can't wait to see the fallout from, "You've been here for 5 years!?"

"Yes. I prevented natural disasters and future problems."

"Why didn't you help us with Darkseid!?"

"This is not my universe. It is not my place to step in and protect it, that is your duty. This is your world and you are its one and only Superman."

"With great power..."

"Which is why I stopped future threats and natural disasters, helping out with villains on the fringe."

"I would have known about you if you tried to help."

"You did not find me because I hid myself."

"But I can hear EVERYTHING."

"I know all about that. I am you, after all. I have lived with these powers longer than you. I know how to evade my own attention."



EXACTLY. It was a dumb idea to begin with. It only serves to constrain future writing.



As if Jimmy and Perry have really been a part of Clark's life in the New 52.

Jimmy and Perry were part of New 52 Clark's life. Jimmy was watching out for him in Truth. Jimmy was also Clark's roommate, peer, and friend as well. Clark had some nice chats with Perry as well. I am pretty sure that both will be sad about his death, if they know that it happened.

[DieHard200904]

If I had my way the blast would heal him immediately and will open a portal to a reformed post crisis reality where Superdad and his family would return to live happily ever after and have adventures of their own

Where is Starman these days? Bring in Starman, Mxyzptlk, etc. to "fix" the situation

[Lokimaru]

You're basically making an argument in favor of more and bigger threats for Superman. In other words, Superman would be in a better position to help and save humanity if humanity was threatened more. It's nonsensical.

Experience matters, remember this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...lesthisisj.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...shercules2.jpg

Same guy basicly, one just has more experience using his powers. Experience matters.

[DieHard200904]

Experience matters, remember this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...lesthisisj.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...shercules2.jpg

Same guy basicly, one just has more experience using his powers. Experience matters.

Earth-22 is another universe that developed very differently from Prime Earth or New Earth. Earth-22 and New Earth are not the same guy. Earth-22 was physically stronger than New Earth, had stronger senses to hear Hercules where New Earth couldn't, plus his body evolved so that Kryptonite didn't hurt him much, even Lex Luthor admitted in Kingdom Come that a nuclear weapon laced with Kryptonite wouldn't do much to that version of Superman. Only magic could hurt him, although he could stand up to it as shown in his fight with Gog and earlier with Shazam.

[NeonZ]

Originally, the new52 timeline had most of the action occurring in the present, then-2011, but implied that many superheroes had been around for 5 years, with some flashbacks like Action Comics' first issues showing things that we thought were set in 2006ish. So 2006-2016 would be 10 years, counted that way. Is that what they are saying equals ten years? Or are they saying that it's been 10 years between the 2011 and 2016 comics (Totaling 15 if we count the ones we thought were 2006)?

If they are counting 2011-2016 in real time as 10 years in comic time, that'd be weird for many reasons, one of which is that comic time usually if anything moves slower than real life rather than faster than it, and another being that they really didn't write it as 10 years or age people properly for 10 years. Like if Damian Wayne was 10 or 12 in the new52 Batman #1 and such, wouldn't be be 20 or 22 years old right now? I'm not following those comics, but from what I see, he's clearly not in his 20s.

It's 5 years between the beginning of the present stories and now - or 10 years between the early Action issues and now, not 10 years between the present in the beginning of the New 52 and now. Still, even those 5 years are kind of odd for characters like Damian and Tim, who haven't significantly aged. The Bat books, in spite of that, have actually consistently referenced the passage since the beginning of the New 52 issues like it was in real time though, although I don't think the other lines did so.

Because pre-flashpoint Superman isn't supposed to be here to begin with. He is an invader. He should've stay in his own reality. But I don't blame him. He doesn't write himself.

His own reality was erased by Barry Allen fusing three Earths together. Blame DC for always using "the world is no more!" plots for their reboots.

[NYCER]

Originally, the new52 timeline had most of the action occurring in the present, then-2011, but implied that many superheroes had been around for 5 years, with some flashbacks like Action Comics' first issues showing things that we thought were set in 2006ish. So 2006-2016 would be 10 years, counted that way. Is that what they are saying equals ten years? Or are they saying that it's been 10 years between the 2011 and 2016 comics (Totaling 15 if we count the ones we thought were 2006)?

If they are counting 2011-2016 in real time as 10 years in comic time, that'd be weird for many reasons, one of which is that comic time usually if anything moves slower than real life rather than faster than it, and another being that they really didn't write it as 10 years or age people properly for 10 years. Like if Damian Wayne was 10 or 12 in the new52 Batman #1 and such, wouldn't be be 20 or 22 years old right now? I'm not following those comics, but from what I see, he's clearly not in his 20s.

They are expanding 2011-2016 to 10 years when in "real" DC time, it's been at most 6 years since The New 52 began so Superman should be 27/28 years old. But because of the nonsense that was CONVERGENCE last year and in order to fit in Superdad's arrival with his family to Earth-0, which was supposedly in sync with Darkseid's invasion in JUSTICE LEAGUE #'s 1-6, that initial 5-year jump further widened by another 5 years in order to fit Superdad's brat's age as 10 years old into mainstream DC continuity.

As I mentioned before, because of Superdad and family's time expansion of the DCU, then everyone from Aquaman to Zatanna should have aged an additional 5 years, but I don't believe that happened because Superdad is a late New 52 gimmick and a CONVERGENCE anomaly. Pre-Superdad, Wonder Woman should at most be 24. But with Superdad's arrival, Diana would now be 27/28. This creates ripple temporal inconsistencies within the DCU. For example, everyone in the Teen Titans would no longer be teens and that book should have been renamed TITANS, Damian Wayne would not be 10 years old right now and his father Bruce should be 37 instead of 32, which Snyder repeatedly stated as Batman's current age. But that's what you get with this Superdad nonsense: more screwing around with the DCU and specifically its timeline.

[NYCER]

I have no idea why you assume that Pre-Flashpoint Superman did not take any hits for Superman for a decade. For all we know, his actions in the shadows saved New 52 quite a bit. And, frankly, wouldn't you hate it more if New 52 needed help all this time from a Superman from another world?

How about the fact that for the big crises such as Superdoom, FOREVER EVIL, H'el, Darkseid etc. Superdad did jack? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING because this gimmick wasn't around back then. Superdad may wear the crest of the House of El, but Superdad's insertion into mainstream DCU made it clear in that poor selling L&C book that he was a coward who deliberately hid in the shadows as Clark White while the real Clark Kent and Superman took all the hits that are now killing him. Maybe Jurgens will retcon it later to show that Superdad lent a helping hand behind the scenes (whatever) but that's too little too late.

And, frankly, I just hate the fact that Superdad and his family exist at all in this or any other universe within DC.

[misslane]

How about the fact that for the big crises such as Superdoom, FOREVER EVIL, H'el, Darkseid etc. Superdad did jack? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING because this gimmick wasn't around back then. Superdad may wear the crest of the House of El, but Superdad's insertion into mainstream DCU made it clear in that poor selling L&C book that he was a coward who deliberately hid in the shadows as Clark White while the real Clark Kent and Superman took all the hits that are now killing him. Maybe Jurgens will retcon it later to show that Superdad lent a helping hand behind the scenes (whatever) but that's too little too late.

And, frankly, I just hate the fact that Superdad and his family exist at all in this or any other universe within DC.

Well, see, you don't know that he did "nothing." Words have meaning and "nothing" means not a thing. If Superman, and we best get used to calling him that because he isn't just Superdad but THE Superman going forward, even kept one building from falling on a innocent people then he helped and saved lives. You can't state as fact that he did nothing anymore than I can state as fact that he did something. So onto that blank canvas we throw our biases, I suppose. You, who hate this character, assume the worst of him and claim that worst assumption as fact. I, who assumes that these characters are essentially good and these creators inherently believe in that goodness, believe that he helped as best he could. It's all a retcon already. Superman being on this Earth and Convergence created that retcon; it's the retcon of his presence on this Earth that is allowing you to insult him right this moment. Jurgens has already written into the backstory of Superman that he helped behind the scenes. He stopped other threats, and investigated potential new ones. He even saved New 52 Batman's life. This Superman, THE Superman, is a hero. You can believe otherwise, but I disagree wholeheartedly.

[NYCER]

Well, see, you don't know that he did "nothing." Words have meaning and "nothing" means not a thing. If Superman, and we best get used to calling him that because he isn't just Superdad but THE Superman going forward, even kept one building from falling on a innocent people then he helped and saved lives. You can't state as fact that he did nothing anymore than I can state as fact that he did something. So onto that blank canvas we throw our biases, I suppose. You, who hate this character, assume the worst of him and claim that worst assumption as fact. I, who assumes that these characters are essentially good and these creators inherently believe in that goodness, believe that he helped as best he could. It's all a retcon already. Superman being on this Earth and Convergence created that retcon; it's the retcon of his presence on this Earth that is allowing you to insult him right this moment. Jurgens has already written into the backstory of Superman that he helped behind the scenes. He stopped other threats, and investigated potential new ones. He even saved New 52 Batman's life. This Superman, THE Superman, is a hero. You can believe otherwise, but I disagree wholeheartedly.

You can fanwank all you want and I disagree with you absolutely.