New Avengers #20 Review (w/spoilers)

[jackolover]

This is exactly why they're going to lose. Because they won't do it takes to win and to fend off the escalating threats.

Well, both the Illuminati and the GS have staved off like 4 Incursions each so far, so they are both pretty proficient at avoiding killing anyone, so they are both pretty lucky at avoiding disaster. It's going to be a tight finish, either way.

[XPac]

Well, both the Illuminati and the GS have staved off like 4 Incursions each so far, so they are both pretty proficient at avoiding killing anyone, so they are both pretty lucky at avoiding disaster. It's going to be a tight finish, either way.

Illuminati have been particularly lucky. The majority of the incursions they have dealt with were essentially resolved by someone else. Who knows... maybe the ultimate irony is that the same would have happened here and the Great Society might have been able to resolve this one too, had the Illuminati not acted. Guess we'll never know now.

[Aaric Rivad]

While this was certainly a fun issue, with probably the best fight scene in a Hickman book for quite some time, I can't help but be a little pissed at a few things. For one, he made the Great Society appear more capable in this one fight than the Illuminati have in the entire run of this series. I hate the way he casually dismisses some of Marvel's most powerful and experienced heroes in one fight after another. My God, I don't think Iron Man has managed to score a single victory in anything Hickman has written since taking over the Avengers.

It's boring when the main characters win every time, but it's equally boring to see them portrayed so incompetently and ineffectually. I've been a big fan of Hickman, and I love the scope of the stories he's telling, but he strikes me as a writer who has absolutely no respect for the Avengers, and only tolerates them as a storytelling device.

I know the Illuminati, and Tony in particular, are going to take the fall in the end. I just wish they weren't being written with such utter disdain. Aside from T'Challa, of course.

[XPac]

While this was certainly a fun issue, with probably the best fight scene in a Hickman book for quite some time, I can't help but be a little pissed at a few things. For one, he made the Great Society appear more capable in this one fight than the Illuminati have in the entire run of this series. I hate the way he casually dismisses some of Marvel's most powerful and experienced heroes in one fight after another. My God, I don't think Iron Man has managed to score a single victory in anything Hickman has written since taking over the Avengers.

It's boring when the main characters win every time, but it's equally boring to see them portrayed so incompetently and ineffectually. I've been a big fan of Hickman, and I love the scope of the stories he's telling, but he strikes me as a writer who has absolutely no respect for the Avengers, and only tolerates them as a storytelling device.

I know the Illuminati, and Tony in particular, are going to take the fall in the end. I just wish they weren't being written with such utter disdain. Aside from T'Challa, of course.

The Illuminati weren't entirely ineffective.

T'Challa stalemated his opponent, while Strange cumberstomped the entire team. We're sort of left in the dark how Namor and Black Bolt (the Illuminati's other big gun aside from Strange) faired.

[jphamlore]

While this was certainly a fun issue, with probably the best fight scene in a Hickman book for quite some time, I can't help but be a little pissed at a few things. For one, he made the Great Society appear more capable in this one fight than the Illuminati have in the entire run of this series. I hate the way he casually dismisses some of Marvel's most powerful and experienced heroes in one fight after another. My God, I don't think Iron Man has managed to score a single victory in anything Hickman has written since taking over the Avengers.

It's boring when the main characters win every time, but it's equally boring to see them portrayed so incompetently and ineffectually. I've been a big fan of Hickman, and I love the scope of the stories he's telling, but he strikes me as a writer who has absolutely no respect for the Avengers, and only tolerates them as a storytelling device.

I know the Illuminati, and Tony in particular, are going to take the fall in the end. I just wish they weren't being written with such utter disdain. Aside from T'Challa, of course.

I really think the longterm plan, well longterm in the sense of the next year, is that in conjunction with the next Avengers movie, Tony Stark will create some form of an Ultron network. So I think in Avengers and New Avengers, Tony Stark is going to be shown as being isolated from the rest of the Avengers and ineffective dealing with other threats so that he feels pushed to go to the next level and inadvertently create an Ultron.

[Wren]

I see the Great Society as the just in this story. They have the Moral high ground, in that they aren't considering blowing up planets full of people while the Illuminati are. After all, that's why the GS and Illuminati started fighting, isn't it? The Illuminati never denied the accusation made by the GS.

The fight started because the Illuminati were honest, and admitted to having a bomb. They wanted to talk it out and come up with another solution, but in the end their position is exactly the same as the GS's: we don't want to kill anyone.... but the earth dies over my dead body.

Then Batman decided screw it let's just punch things. Batman's stated position is the same as the Illuminati's, "I don't want to kill... but I won't let anything harm my earth".

There's no moral high ground here. The Illuminati are just smarter than the GS, and have taken their position to it's logical conclusion and prepared to execute it.

If the GS really had the moral high ground they would have refused to fight.

I love the GS portrayal (boundless and sun god are really terrific)... but they are the worst kind of idiots: wilfully blind ones.

This issue was amazing (and the annual was beautiful), but the morality in this book is just silly to me...

[XPac]

The fight started because the Illuminati were honest, and admitted to having a bomb. They wanted to talk it out and come up with another solution, but in the end their position is exactly the same as the GS's: we don't want to kill anyone.... but the earth dies over my dead body.

Then Batman decided screw it let's just punch things. Batman's stated position is the same as the Illuminati's, "I don't want to kill... but I won't let anything harm my earth".

There's no moral high ground here. The Illuminati are just smarter than the GS, and have taken their position to it's logical conclusion and prepared to execute it.

If the GS really had the moral high ground they would have refused to fight.

I love the GS portrayal (boundless and sun god are really terrific)... but they are the worst kind of idiots: wilfully blind ones.

This issue was amazing (and the annual was beautiful), but the morality in this book is just silly to me...

The fight didn't start because the Illuminati were honest. The fight started because a member of the Illuminati threw a trident at them.

[stingnewell]

So Strange finally gets win and Marvel yields to DC admitting Hulk would lose to Superman.

[XPac]

So Strange finally gets win and Marvel yields to DC admitting Hulk would lose to Superman.

Hulk already lost to real Superman a long time ago in Marvel vs DC.

[JaggedFel]

So Strange finally gets win and Marvel yields to DC admitting Hulk would lose to Superman.

Hulk should lose to Superman. Iron Man also lot to the Flash

[stingnewell]

Hulk should lose to Superman. Iron Man also lot to the Flash

Unless Stark steals a mother box to take out Flash.

Hulk already lost to real Superman a long time ago in Marvel vs DC.

I don't count the battle votes.

[StoneGold]

The fight started because the Illuminati were honest, and admitted to having a bomb. They wanted to talk it out and come up with another solution, but in the end their position is exactly the same as the GS's: we don't want to kill anyone.... but the earth dies over my dead body.

Then Batman decided screw it let's just punch things. Batman's stated position is the same as the Illuminati's, "I don't want to kill... but I won't let anything harm my earth".

There's no moral high ground here. The Illuminati are just smarter than the GS, and have taken their position to it's logical conclusion and prepared to execute it.

If the GS really had the moral high ground they would have refused to fight.

I love the GS portrayal (boundless and sun god are really terrific)... but they are the worst kind of idiots: wilfully blind ones.

This issue was amazing (and the annual was beautiful), but the morality in this book is just silly to me...

No, the fight started because Namor skewered Batman with his trident.

[Tony Stark]

No, the fight started because Namor skewered Batman with his trident.

Yeah lol. That pretty much set everything off!

[Rheged]

Happy to FINALLY see Dr. Strange shine in this book. Though I found the 'reveal' to be annoying, considering it's been what? SIX issues since we were led to believe that Strange sold his soul. And what kind of Sorcerer Supreme doesn't realize his soul is missing?

The fight didn't start because the Illuminati were honest. The fight started because a member of the Illuminati threw a trident at them.

No, the fight started because Namor skewered Batman with his trident.

Yeah lol. That pretty much set everything off!

Yeah, cause it's not like Batman wasn't trying to incite a fight.

The Illuminati weren't that honest last issue -- Reed outright denied they were going to use the bomb -- they were writen like idiots, yet again.

[Tony Stark]

Yeah, cause it's not like Batman wasn't trying to incite a fight.

The Illuminati weren't that honest last issue -- Reed outright denied they were going to use the bomb -- they were writen like idiots, yet again.

By saying he was going to let the 616 heroes destroy his world?! Yes he was ready to go, BUT Namor threw the first punch. He threw a trident at the guy. To me that's starting a fight. I know you love Namor. So to you it's different. Fights usually start when the first person throws a punch. I like Namor, but he does this kind of thing often. Hitting before thinking.