Ranking Marvel and DC best hand to hand combat fighters.

[Primetime Harder]

If you're referring to the feats of Spector and Wade I think you're referring to, Karnak's level of bullet-timing far exceeds their's. There's an ubiquitous amount of stuff that can be construed as bullet-timing and then there's feats like this:

While that is a damned impressive feat...I have to say, that's about the worst-drawn bullet I've ever seen. It looks like a rock.

[The Dork Knight]

It isn't so much that ....which is indeed very impressive compared to even other bullet time feats ,as Karnak being someone who struggled with Black Panther and such , without feats like that till what is it ...50 years after his introduction suddenly getting this feat

[Zodlike]

I was sure there's probably someone out there better than Iron Fist, but Elektra sure as hell isn't that someone.

Elektra would beat Danny Rand, if she had to. There are a lot of top-tier unarmed combatants in the Marvel Universe: Captain America, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Sabretooth, Gambit, Deadpool, Shang Chi, Vargas, etc. But I stand by my own view that Elektra is a better fighter and pure martial artist (hand-to-hand) than any of them, superhuman abilities excepted. She is a mystical ninja who has mastered virtually all forms and styles.

[master of read]

Elektra would beat Danny Rand, if she had to. There are a lot of top-tier unarmed combatants in the Marvel Universe: Captain America, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Sabretooth, Gambit, Deadpool, Shang Chi, Vargas, etc. But I stand by my own view that Elektra is a better fighter and pure martial artist (hand-to-hand) than any of them, superhuman abilities excepted. She is a mystical ninja who has mastered virtually all forms and styles.

you got any feats to back up that claim?

[Nik Hasta]

Elektra would beat Danny Rand, if she had to. There are a lot of top-tier unarmed combatants in the Marvel Universe: Captain America, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Sabretooth, Gambit, Deadpool, Shang Chi, Vargas, etc. But I stand by my own view that Elektra is a better fighter and pure martial artist (hand-to-hand) than any of them, superhuman abilities excepted. She is a mystical ninja who has mastered virtually all forms and styles.

This position doesn't make sense. What do you even mean by 'if she had to'?

In a straight fight Danny whips the hell out of Elektra. It's knock against her skill, Danny is just real crazy strong.

Just look at Rand-kai, guy is fast enough to catch bullets while poisoned, strong enough to beat the piss out of big old dragons with his bare hands, durable enough to eat hits from blatant metahumans and knows a ton of weird chi tricks into the bargain. Force of him and Steel Dragon throwing their peak levels of chi at one another mostly destroyed the floor of a skyscraper from the fallout of them hitting each other.

He kicks Elektra up and down the street fairly consistently to my mind.

[Cody]

It isn't so much that ....which is indeed very impressive compared to even other bullet time feats ,as Karnak being someone who struggled with Black Panther and such , without feats like that till what is it ...50 years after his introduction suddenly getting this feat

Yeah pretty much. It's about as legitimate as Captain Americas 2 or 3 bullet timing feats. As in; not consistent with his decades worth of high end consistent showings whatsoever and thus should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Beadle]

I suspect it's going to become the new normal for him though, as they build to the movie.

Just to balance the group, they'll probably neuter Crystal a bit, and Black Bolt a lot (see Pen's predictions of BB becoming basically nu-Banshee), while simultaneously turning Karnak into a martial god-master, Gorgon into a Class 75 brick, and Triton into nu-Namor. I have no idea how they'll make Medusa bad-ass. Lockjaw and Maximus are probably in the right sort of ballpark already.

[The Chou Lives]

I suspect it's going to become the new normal for him though, as they build to the movie.

Just to balance the group, they'll probably neuter Crystal a bit, and Black Bolt a lot (see Pen's predictions of BB becoming basically nu-Banshee), while simultaneously turning Karnak into a martial god-master, Gorgon into a Class 75 brick, and Triton into nu-Namor. I have no idea how they'll make Medusa bad-ass. Lockjaw and Maximus are probably in the right sort of ballpark already.

Considering how they wusses out Gamora agree with Meduesa thing and in general.

[Tanrage]

I'm guessing Medusa's hair will be used T-1000 style, badass enough I think.

[AnonymousODG]

Yeah pretty much. It's about as legitimate as Captain Americas 2 or 3 bullet timing feats. As in; not consistent with his decades worth of high end consistent showings whatsoever and thus should be taken with a grain of salt.

Now I don't criticize in the slightest that you want to reserve judgment and remain skeptical. But the intent of the scene is very clear to me since an entire two-page splash was dedicated to it. It's an unadulterated demonstration that puts the audience of Karnak #1 on notice: yea, this is what Karnak does. And that sheer in-your-face nature of it raises it far above Spector, Wade or Cap's feats in my opinion.

It isn't so much that ....which is indeed very impressive compared to even other bullet time feats ,as Karnak being someone who struggled with Black Panther and such , without feats like that till what is it ...50 years after his introduction suddenly getting this feat

Chalk it up to his death and resurrection then. But it seems from the first four issues that Warren Ellis has a very clear conception of Karnak that he is impressing upon his audience.

[GozertheGozarian]

You forgot several characters!

10) Karate Kid
11) Karate D. Kidd (Karate Kid when he got really into One Piece and decided to start the Karate Kidd Pirates)
12) Ku Klux Karate Kid (Karate Kid when he decided to infiltrate the KKK and take them down from the inside)
13) Karate Kid
14) Karate Kid
15) Totally Not Karate Kid (Karate Kid wearing a fake moustache and beard)
16) Karate Mario (Karate Kid wearing a red cap with a K emblazoned on the front, blue overalls, red shirt, white gloves, brown boots, and a thick black moustache)
17) Karate Kid
18) Karate Cow (Karate Kid magically transformed into a cow)
19) Karate Kid, M.D. (Karate Kid after getting his medical degree and performing his necessary residency)
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20) everyone else.

20 . Hijo del Karate Kid
21. Karate Kid, Jr.

[Cody]

Now I don't criticize in the slightest that you want to reserve judgment and remain skeptical. But the intent of the scene is very clear to me since an entire two-page splash was dedicated to it. It's an unadulterated demonstration that puts the audience of Karnak #1 on notice: yea, this is what Karnak does. And that sheer in-your-face nature of it raises it far above Spector, Wade or Cap's feats in my opinion.

You've been here long enough to know the rules by now. We go by high end consistent feats here, and Karnak has never once before shown that level of speed over the time he has been around. Therefore; his one sole bullet timing feat is invalid until further feats.



Chalk it up to his death and resurrection then. But it seems from the first four issues that Warren Ellis has a very clear conception of Karnak that he is impressing upon his audience.[/QUOTE]

[Sharpandpointies]

Just look at Rand-kai, guy is fast enough to catch bullets while poisoned, strong enough to beat the piss out of big old dragons with his bare hands, durable enough to eat hits from blatant metahumans and knows a ton of weird chi tricks into the bargain. Force of him and Steel Dragon throwing their peak levels of chi at one another mostly destroyed the floor of a skyscraper from the fallout of them hitting each other..

Before anyone comments that these are supernatural powers or the like, they come from Danny's LEARNED mastery of his Chi.

Ie, these things are part and parcel of Danny Rand's skill.

Based on how we judge feats hereabouts, I place Elektra somewhere in the area of Daredevil - feats are similar, skills come from the same source, presentation-wise they're in the same area. Which puts Elektra above people like Captain America, but below people like Danny Rand, Fat Cobra, Mantis, and even Shang Chi, given the crazy feats Shang Chi has pulled off.

She's good enough to make a fight of it against Shang, at the least, and it's not going to be a sweep for him. And she can at least kind of keep up with Rand, speed-wise (he's faster, but not into 'blitzing' territory). But she's not beating him in a straight-up fight.

Mileage may vary.

[Pendaran]

Before anyone comments that these are supernatural powers or the like, they come from Danny's LEARNED mastery of his Chi.

To be fair, he did also hug a dragon to death as part of getting them. He just then also had to refine and develop that.

[Beadle]

To be fair, he did also hug a dragon to death as part of getting them. He just then also had to refine and develop that.

So what you're saying is that Danny's basically Elmira from Tiny Toons...?