Superman August 2016 Solicitations

[Tayswift]

Superwoman looks more interesting than I originally thought. Traci 13 and Natasha Irons and Steel were unexpected additions to the cast but welcome.

As aprehensive as I am over the circumstances of all this, I'm glad we are seeing some old faces as far as the cast. Sawyer and the SCU in ACTION...now Traci and Natasha in SUPERWOMAN, Cat in SUPERGIRL, Bring back Bibbo , Proffessor Hamilton and GangBuster somewhere in the titles and we'll have pretty much the core 90's cast again, which I wouldn't mind at least.

superman world and metropolis for sure are looking more alive on rebirth. traci 13 and natasha irons were forgotten, nice to see them again

[SuperCrab]

Some of the issues of the two Green Lantern Rebirth titles don't look bad. I'm not sure why all of the DC Comics titles that look like they might be okay beyond Rebirth all start with the word "Green" (Counting Green Arrow also). Of course, I'd need to catch up on this miniseries I'm reading which leads to Edge of Oblivion first, it sounds like (Not that I would really *need* need to do that, but it sounds like they contain spoilers for those miniseries, which I planned to get through eventually). To be honest, I'm not really a fan of Green Lantern traditionally, and I mostly like Green Arrow as a TV show character (I watch Arrow when it comes to Netflix- on a year long delay or longer, but I like it when it finds me). I've only read maybe less than 10 comics about each "Green thing", but if I decided I needed a DC Comics title or two this summer, that might be the way to go.

Of course, why I would "need" to find a DC Comics title in the first place, I'm not sure.

We'll see.

Justice League solicts kind of look like Batman is getting beat, doesn't like SuperDad, but calls him for help because only he can save him, and then SuperDad saves him and Batman is cool with him. I'm reading between the lines there, could go another way. However, I probably wouldn't want to read that story if that's how it's going to go. This is like the one time I actually want Batman to hate the current "Superman" and make him look like crap by outdoing him at everything despite being a mere human- as opposed to in the past when I was upset when they did stuff like that because I liked the new52 Superman. But we'll see. Might not be as bad as the actual Superman title looks like it'll be to someone with my sensibilities.

I wonder if the Superman stuff will sell based on the hype of bringing the "old" Superman back, plus a new #1 for Superman and Doomsday in Action Comics, or if comic book readers are too savvy for that now. I hope sales plummet immediately, but I'm kind of concerned they might see an increase based on just collectors and people thinking it'll be something it's not, and take a while for the sales to fall, at which they'll blame it on something other than SuperDad and SuperJon and find a way to keep them around in new52 Superman's place.

I wonder how much Warner Brothers monitors sales. If, say, the SuperDad comics wound up selling 10k a month under new52 Superman, on average, would that force the editors to make another change to save their jobs? Would they need to drop 20,000 an issue? Or does WB not really care as long as the overall DC Comics line stays in decent shape or makes it up somewhere else?

How quick can the editors change plans and turn on a dime and drop new52 Superman in if they see falling sales and hypothetically want to? What's the turnaround time from "Cancel all the SuperDad stuff, write him out in the first possible issue that we can and bring new52 Superman back" to us seeing a new52 Superman comic on the shelves? I'm assuming there's sort of a "point of no return" with each issue where there isn't time to replace it with something else because there would be no time to write it, draw it, and ink it, and it may have already gone to the printers. So from decision to do it ASAP to seeing it- what are we talking, hypothetically? 2 months? 3 months? More?

[manofsteel1979]

Some of the issues of the two Green Lantern Rebirth titles don't look bad. I'm not sure why all of the DC Comics titles that look like they might be okay beyond Rebirth all start with the word "Green" (Counting Green Arrow also). Of course, I'd need to catch up on this miniseries I'm reading which leads to Edge of Oblivion first, it sounds like (Not that I would really *need* need to do that, but it sounds like they contain spoilers for those miniseries, which I planned to get through eventually). To be honest, I'm not really a fan of Green Lantern traditionally, and I mostly like Green Arrow as a TV show character (I watch Arrow when it comes to Netflix- on a year long delay or longer, but I like it when it finds me). I've only read maybe less than 10 comics about each "Green thing", but if I decided I needed a DC Comics title or two this summer, that might be the way to go.

Of course, why I would "need" to find a DC Comics title in the first place, I'm not sure.

We'll see.

Justice League solicts kind of look like Batman is getting beat, doesn't like SuperDad, but calls him for help because only he can save him, and then SuperDad saves him and Batman is cool with him. I'm reading between the lines there, could go another way. However, I probably wouldn't want to read that story if that's how it's going to go. This is like the one time I actually want Batman to hate the current "Superman" and make him look like crap by outdoing him at everything despite being a mere human- as opposed to in the past when I was upset when they did stuff like that because I liked the new52 Superman. But we'll see. Might not be as bad as the actual Superman title looks like it'll be to someone with my sensibilities.

I wonder if the Superman stuff will sell based on the hype of bringing the "old" Superman back, plus a new #1 for Superman and Doomsday in Action Comics, or if comic book readers are too savvy for that now. I hope sales plummet immediately, but I'm kind of concerned they might see an increase based on just collectors and people thinking it'll be something it's not, and take a while for the sales to fall, at which they'll blame it on something other than SuperDad and SuperJon and find a way to keep them around in new52 Superman's place.

I wonder how much Warner Brothers monitors sales. If, say, the SuperDad comics wound up selling 10k a month under new52 Superman, on average, would that force the editors to make another change to save their jobs? Would they need to drop 20,000 an issue? Or does WB not really care as long as the overall DC Comics line stays in decent shape or makes it up somewhere else?

How quick can the editors change plans and turn on a dime and drop new52 Superman in if they see falling sales and hypothetically want to? What's the turnaround time from "Cancel all the SuperDad stuff, write him out in the first possible issue that we can and bring new52 Superman back" to us seeing a new52 Superman comic on the shelves? I'm assuming there's sort of a "point of no return" with each issue where there isn't time to replace it with something else because there would be no time to write it, draw it, and ink it, and it may have already gone to the printers. So from decision to do it ASAP to seeing it- what are we talking, hypothetically? 2 months? 3 months? More?

i'd say 6 months, five months tops...and sales would have to fall below TRUTH numbers by August, which I doubt will happen. I'm talking sales in the mid 20,000 or lower, which unless the stories are objectively bad or offensive, I doubt we see numbers that low for ACTION or SUPERMAN.


If sales stay where they are now or only slightly increase, this is a storyline that runs it's course by June, July 2017. The most likely outcome really. Nuperman returns with a new costume that mirrors Superdad's but with Red boots, and Superdad sticks around until ACTION 1000 at least.

If sales significantly increase over the past year, like in the Super titles stay consistently in the 50,000 range or higher (which is unlikely,but possible) then I could see them delaying Nuperman's return indefinitely. If sales are maintained at a higher average after that....well, it's bye bye Nuperman and either he gets retconned away via mind wipes, merged with Superdad or most likely, the Superman line undergoes a soft reboot at the end of this 2 year REBIRTH phase for the DCU and suddenly Superdad is and always has been this universe's Superman and we get Superman origin retelling number 52.

[Truman Burbank]

Well, looks like I'll just keep remaining in the board minority, because I'm still looking forward to the books. I'm interested in the concepts that are leading to Rebirth, and I'm interested to see how the stories progress out of it. Nothing I've seen in these solicits changes that.

I think the Harley Quinn book is a great idea, and I'm not really a Harley fan. It's an homage to one of the great Superman stories in a book that sells very well, and Neal Adams is doing the art (without writing the story!). That's a big win for the Superman character.

[Knightsilver]

Well, looks like I'll just keep remaining in the board minority, because I'm still looking forward to the books. I'm interested in the concepts that are leading to Rebirth, and I'm interested to see how the stories progress out of it. Nothing I've seen in these solicits changes that.

I think the Harley Quinn book is a great idea, and I'm not really a Harley fan. It's an homage to one of the great Superman stories in a book that sells very well, and Neal Adams is doing the art (without writing the story!). That's a big win for the Superman character.

I'm in the minority with you. I'm actually pretty positive about the changes...of course,Rebirth Superman is "my"Superman so that affects my outlook as well.

[The Shredder]

I'm in the minority with you. I'm actually pretty positive about the changes...of course,Rebirth Superman is "my"Superman so that affects my outlook as well.

I'm somewhat in the same boat, since Post-Crisis Superman is the Superman I grew up reading about, however I'm definitely not as emotionally clingy about him as some Nuperman fans have proven to be by the display on the forums.

[Tony]

Well, looks like I'll just keep remaining in the board minority, because I'm still looking forward to the books. I'm interested in the concepts that are leading to Rebirth, and I'm interested to see how the stories progress out of it. Nothing I've seen in these solicits changes that.

I think the Harley Quinn book is a great idea, and I'm not really a Harley fan. It's an homage to one of the great Superman stories in a book that sells very well, and Neal Adams is doing the art (without writing the story!). That's a big win for the Superman character.

I'm with you. I don't post as much here since there is a block of posters vocally anti the switch and until the books come out I don't think the back and forth is overly productive at this point, but I plan to give the whole line a try. I expect I'll enjoy the change more than new 52 which I was also up for trying and have read most of.

[manofsteel1979]

I'm somewhat in the same boat, since Post-Crisis Superman is the Superman I grew up reading about, however I'm definitely not as emotionally clingy about him as some Nuperman fans have proven to be by the display on the forums.

I'm in the cautiously optimistic camp....then I remember who is in charge still and my optimism dies lol.

Truth is, while technically the Superman that left in 2011 was Post-Crisis Superman, the 'real' Post-Crisis Superman officially went away in 2004 with BIRTHRIGHT and SUPERMAN 200. The Superman we got from 2004 on was a weird amalgamation of Byrne, Donner and Bronze age with all the convoluted continuity and very little of what made each of those versions great. So after watching "my" Superman die a long and protracted death, I'm sensitive to the guys losing their Superman now, but at least they didn't have to watch their favorite version die a death of a 1000 cuts over 7-10 long years. Nuperman by comparison is being given a quick and mostly painless and dignified death....assuming he is dying and never returning, which I'm not sure either is happening.

As a fan of Superman, it doesn't pay to be clingy. Ask anyone here that was reading in 1986. It's a reality of the character. It's better to have an allegiance to good stories and less to a specific version, IMO.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm a little different. I grew up in the post-Crisis verse. If we were going by general labels conventional wisdom would have said I would have been furious with the New 52 and ecstatic over Rebirth. But its just the opposite. Because I'm not clingy to any particular version, I just want the version to match the world. Too much of this crap going on is why I can't handle Marvel.

[The Shredder]

I'm in the cautiously optimistic camp....then I remember who is in charge still and my optimism dies lol.

Yeah, I hear you. That's why I couldn't bring myself to get too excited when the Rebirth news was unveiled, and just recently voiced that in a thread earlier! lol

Truth is, while technically the Superman that left in 2011 was Post-Crisis Superman, the 'real' Post-Crisis Superman officially went away in 2004 with BIRTHRIGHT and SUPERMAN 200. The Superman we got from 2004 on was a weird amalgamation of Byrne, Donner and Bronze age with all the convoluted continuity and very little of what made each of those versions great. So after watching "my" Superman die a long and protracted death, I'm sensitive to the guys losing their Superman now, but at least they didn't have to watch their favorite version die a death of a 1000 cuts over 7-10 long years. Nuperman by comparison is being given a quick and mostly painless and dignified death....assuming he is dying and never returning, which I'm not sure either is happening.

I can understand where you are coming from. I guess in my mind, Post-Crisis Superman was still around post 2004/Birthright, if even just in spirit, cause he wasn't at that point, outright taken off the table, but I do get what you are saying in that the direction was starting to shift, definitely by the 2004 point, and got alot more Donner/Reeve-esque around the time of the "One Year Later" jump ahead in 2005/2006. Which was most assuredly NOT my cup of tea, but that was the bricks.

As a fan of Superman, it doesn't pay to be clingy. Ask anyone here that was reading in 1986. It's a reality of the character. It's better to have an allegiance to good stories and less to a specific version, IMO.

Indeed. DC has made it quite clear that putting a specific version of Superman on a pedestal probably isn't going to do one any favors long term. Cause the good times obviously won't last. Having gone over a good amount of comics in my lifetime, I can appreciate each incarnation of Superman for what they brought to the table. Of course some you might like more than others, and nostalgia plays a hand in that as well, but to be perfectly honest, if the DC Rebirth presentation for Superman would have been the news that Pre-Crisis Superman was coming back, or a whole entirely new and rebooted Superman, my interest level would be about the same as it is right now. Course I'm interested, but very, very cautious. Much thanks to DC.

[Truman Burbank]

I'm in the cautiously optimistic camp....then I remember who is in charge still and my optimism dies lol.

Truth is, while technically the Superman that left in 2011 was Post-Crisis Superman, the 'real' Post-Crisis Superman officially went away in 2004 with BIRTHRIGHT and SUPERMAN 200. The Superman we got from 2004 on was a weird amalgamation of Byrne, Donner and Bronze age with all the convoluted continuity and very little of what made each of those versions great. So after watching "my" Superman die a long and protracted death, I'm sensitive to the guys losing their Superman now, but at least they didn't have to watch their favorite version die a death of a 1000 cuts over 7-10 long years. Nuperman by comparison is being given a quick and mostly painless and dignified death....assuming he is dying and never returning, which I'm not sure either is happening.

As a fan of Superman, it doesn't pay to be clingy. Ask anyone here that was reading in 1986. It's a reality of the character. It's better to have an allegiance to good stories and less to a specific version, IMO.

Well said. Though, I'd argue that Post-Crisis really went away after Superman 150, with the staff changes and continuity retcons, but that's semantics.

I have a lot of thoughts about how I prefer the world of Superman and his characterization to be, but really, I just want to read Superman stories that feel like Superman stories, and I personally haven't had that with the New 52 run. I share the apprehension about the management, but I see this as a chance to get back to that.

[Patrick Gerard]

Well, looks like I'll just keep remaining in the board minority, because I'm still looking forward to the books. I'm interested in the concepts that are leading to Rebirth, and I'm interested to see how the stories progress out of it. Nothing I've seen in these solicits changes that.

I think the Harley Quinn book is a great idea, and I'm not really a Harley fan. It's an homage to one of the great Superman stories in a book that sells very well, and Neal Adams is doing the art (without writing the story!). That's a big win for the Superman character.

Same here.

I'm a little different. I grew up in the post-Crisis verse. If we were going by general labels conventional wisdom would have said I would have been furious with the New 52 and ecstatic over Rebirth. But its just the opposite. Because I'm not clingy to any particular version, I just want the version to match the world. Too much of this crap going on is why I can't handle Marvel.

I'd rather see the world change to match the Superman. Having Superman shaped by the world he inhabits seems to miss the point of the character. I want an iconic version of Superman that borrows from all eras while evolving him in a mature direction as an elder statesman -- and the world can bend to suit that as far as I'm concerned. Superman can move planets, in every sense of the word.

Ideally, I'd want an everything bagel. An immigrant. A Superboy for the Legion. A cousin for Kara. A warm-hearted farmboy. A champion of the oppressed with a reckless streak that's been tempered over time. A prize winning journalist. A career hero with a fortress full of wonders that allude to more adventures than can ever be told. A mature statesman. Soulmate of Lois Lane. Ancestor of a dynasty.

That's Superman. Anything that isn't all of those things is just a piece of him, a clone that may be taken from his narrative DNA. Given a life of its own, perhaps, but less than the totality of the whole.

Incidentally, if you fear a stealth reboot (and I see very little "stealth" going on), you might want to doublecheck both the Harley Quinn plot description and the Titans solicits. All I can say is maybe you could try embracing the thing you fear.

[UltimateTy]

Supergirl and superwoman are on my list and maybe the new super-man

[Sacred Knight]

I like a Superman who inspires and shapes the world too. But in a metaphorical sense, not a literal sense. In fact seeing the Pre-FP Superman try to shape this world into one like his own would be laughable on the face of it considering the eras are not that different in terms of tone. His world had just as much if not even more problems than this current one does. It at least made some sense when the original Kal-L came back with a "my world was more pure and beautiful than yours" platform. We had a difference in era and tone spanning around five decades at the time and it was a more lighthearted tone. Anyone from the pre-Flashpoint world wouldn't have a leg to stand on with such a stance.

[Patrick Gerard]

I like a Superman who inspires and shapes the world too. But in a metaphorical sense, not a literal sense. In fact seeing the Pre-FP Superman try to shape this world into one like his own would be laughable on the face of it considering the eras are not that different in terms of tone. His world had just as much if not even more problems than this current one does. It at least made some sense when the original Kal-L came back with a "my world was more pure and beautiful than yours" platform. We had a difference in era and tone spanning around five decades at the time and it was a more lighthearted tone. Anyone from the pre-Flashpoint world wouldn't have a leg to stand on with such a stance.

I'm not entirely sold on them going this route...

But in my take, he'd be a heck of a lot more than pre-Flashpoint Superman after undoing the Crisis.

The pre-Flashpoint Superman undoing the Crisis is like a piece of string with a knot in it that unties itself. He might not be there yet. Truth is, they've been nebulous on what happened on that journey and even what his past is. His statues in his mountain fortress were blobby and hard to make out. I think they're purposefully dodging the specifics of what Krypton he came from.

I think a lot of you guys are reading what's a personal, ground level story in Lois & Clark and assuming it has no figurative depth to it. It might. It might not. Jurgens' take at this point is to sell it as accessible. This is a lynchpin in Geoff Johns' big event after Rebirth though. Jurgens is doing the humanizing relatable tie-in/build up.

And these solicits position him already as not just the Superman who fought Doomsday but the Superman who fought Muhammed Ali. And, yeah, maybe the latter is a parody sequel but it got approved. Which means, well... Maybe it's more helpful to imagine that all the events prior to Flashpoint have been fused into a single continuity, from 1938 to 2011. And this is the Superman of all of that, not just some sliver from 2005-2011. That's what Busiek and Johns were aiming for in 2005 to an extent anyway but having him undo the Crisis kind of pushes that further.

But then again, I think people who identify the Legion from "The Lightning Saga" on as anything other than the original pre-Magic Wars team restored are basically stubbornly refusing to accept the conceits presented to them and kind of being dicks about it. I think the point there was that the post-Lightning Saga Legion was squarely intended as, metaphysically, the originals reshuffled, positioning the Magic Wars, 5YL, Zero Hour, and WaK as alternate Legions who were not the originals.

This Superman is the Earth-1 Superman. He's the Superman who appeared in ACTION #1. His timeline got banged up a bunch of times, which he may or may not be aware of but he's the same lump of clay despite having been molded into different shapes, corrupted by various timeline changes.

Earth-2 was a facsimile of an unbanged up timeline that was closer to ACTION #1 and the early comics: an uncorrupted back-up copy. But he was never the original.

Post-Flashpoint was a completely separate guy or at the very least a lump of clay that got hacked off the original. Kind of like the Pocket Universe Superboy. A quantum clone, a decoy put in place to hold history together because the real Superman wasn't in place to undergo the revisions his universe underwent. But this is "Superdad"'s universe, which is why he has no other place to go. It's just been remodeled and a placeholder was substituted for him because he was out of sync with the timeline when it was rebuilding itself.

And I think that's more or less where we're headed.