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  1. #256
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Nov 2014


    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Part of the issue was that he spent a lot of time setting up Age of Ultron. Which both took forever to actually come out, and was pretty much a dud when it did.
    Really, Age of Ultron's only real legacy was providing a title for the movies to use...

  2. #257
    Incredible Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Jul 2018


    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Part of the issue was that he spent a lot of time setting up Age of Ultron. Which both took forever to actually come out, and was pretty much a dud when it did.
    Yeah completely agree. Again, I wonder how much was his fault. It was the peak time for events like Fear Itself and AvX that he had no choice but to tie into.

  3. #258


    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Really, Age of Ultron's only real legacy was providing a title for the movies to use...
    And it wasn't a very good movie either.

    At least She-Hulk was rocking the boyish short hair in the comic.
    Last edited by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree; 10-07-2019 at 08:44 AM.

  4. #259


    Quote Originally Posted by Saffron View Post
    That's how all critics come off, especially those who engage in academic criticism. And I think there's actually a lot of truth to it lol. Still, I think its good for the artform and for the industry.
    No, i mean that O'neill feels like overly harsh and elitist when it comes to comic characters and their adaptations at times.

    These are her thoughts on GOTG 2: http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogsp...believers.html

    "Watching the 2017 Guardians of the Galaxy on the big screen, I was taken aback by just how banal these wonderful characters had become. Gamora and Drax the Destroyer were both created by Jim Starlin, the latter with Mike Friedrich; Mantis by Steve Englehart and Don Heck; Groot and Ego by Lee & Kirby; Rocket Raccoon by Bill Mantlo & Keith Giffen. Every character onscreen was the product of distinctive creators with distinctive ideas, who each worked under different constraints, exploring different themes and telling very different kinds of stories. The Guardians who appear onscreen are based not on the original Guardians of the Galaxy, created in 1969 by Arnold Drake and Gene Colan, but on a version of the team created in the mid-2000s by Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning and built off the Annihilation crossover written by Giffen. The Star-Lord who appears onscreen as played by Chris Pratt bears little resemblance to the Star-Lord created by Englehart and Steve Gan in 1976. I go down this laundry list of creators and reinventions in order to point out just how many individual voices went into the creation and continued relevancy of every character.

    "None of these voices can be heard onscreen. Only the endless empty howl of IP management, the essences of characters ground down into thin pulp to be processed into the standard action movie template. Complete with quips.

    "The effect is that of seeing children soiling the legacy of their betters – even Lee’s contributions ultimately being little more than grist for the mill of endless bowdlerization. (It doesn’t help that these video game creatures move around onscreen to the sound of classic rock songs produced by greater talents. Seeing George Harrison’s “My Sweet Lord” soundtrack a weightless sequence of CGI “splendor” almost inspired me to walk out of the theater on its own.) Marvel is both the unified sum of thousands of different characters and the product of the sweat of hundreds of creators working to express themselves through a limited but also paradoxically unrestricted genre. Anything goes as long as you can fit your ideas through certain narrow apertures. It’s surprisingly easy to use comic books to tell very personal stories, whatever your definition of personal may be. If the stories are any good they stick around and become definitive, and new creators take these stories and use them as the foundation for new stories. If they aren't, whatever is left survives in a Handbook entry, awaiting another creator to come along and see something of value in a space raccoon with a jetpack.

    "Everyone was always getting screwed but no one was making much money. The irony is that a creator’s given IP could only become valuable once every shred of personality was drained, leaving multicolored action figures to be digitally manipulated onscreen while screenwriters hammer every character into the same Marvel Studios formula template. Now Drax the Destroyer is worth quite a lot of money, even as everything that ever made the character interesting has fallen by the wayside."
    I disagree with her about the movie's characters. Yes, Drax and Mantis are pretty bad, but most of the team members weren't conceived with some grand ideal and metaphysical voice in mind like a Thanos or a Warlock. Groot was pretty much a monster of the week in a random issue of Tales to Astonish. Even Stan Lee forgot about him. Rocket was made by Mantlo and Giffen as a joke character based on a Beatles song who didn't have much purpose Beyond having a quirky adventure with Hulk and a miniseries where he fought an evil mole on a galactic insane asylum. Yes, Pratt-Lord is nothing like his 1976 version from a B/W magazine that was ignored by everyone's radar. He was a Buck Rogers pastiche with a theme related to astrology until Steve Englehart left the writing to Claremont. He barely had a consistent characterisation until Giffen brought him back in 2006 as a remorseful and sardonic veteran with a Killzone mask. (does anyone knows that Tymothy Zhann made a successor to Star-Lord?)

    And as noted, the meta-commentary of both GotG and GotG2, with its notions of friendship, family, neuro-diversity, shared pain and healing...there's a LOT going on there besides being a fun action comedy, even though Gunn messed up Ronan and the Nova Corps. Marvel has always been popular entertainment. It seems silly to me to claim that the movies are somehow betraying the artistic voices of the characters original creators (especially after reading stuff like ''Marvel: The Untold Story''. A lot of these creators were creating popular entertainment as part of an industry; sometimes they weren't above hiding a dick joke in a comic or taking a swipe at the competition or at each other in their own meta-text. Changing something like 'Watchmen'? I get that argument. You have some characters who had a handful of backup stories in the late 1960s, a handful of guest appearances in the 1970s and then a moderately successful series in the 1990s and then a new, unrelated team in the 2000s that used a bunch of almost totally forgotten characters to reboot the team.
    Why i don't like Thanos Rising

    My issues with Thuggish Thanos

    Cosmic Marvel is best Marvel

    No one can write Thanos and Adam Warlock well but Jim Starlin.

  5. #260
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    Jan 2016


    Eh, I'm just not too much of a Bendis fan. His style of writing worked really well for Spider-Man, but he took that and applied it to all of his runs, and it just didn't work. I definitely agree with the criticism that he writes all his characters the same.

    I feel like the reason why Bendis has made so much money for Marvel is because of how tpb friendly his storylines are. I think he writes his stories, keeping in mind that they'll probably be sold in tpb form at bookstores. I mean didn't Ultimate Spider-Man kind of start Marvel's preference for tpb's? Obviously, they were done before, but it seems like they were pushed really hard starting in the mid 2000's.
    Last edited by manymade1; Yesterday at 02:41 PM.

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